Author Topic: Get out there and RP more!  (Read 17482 times)

Illysia

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2010, 11:01:05 pm »
 :thumbdown: Guys, guys.... Not helping on the encouraging people to RP part...  :offtopic:


We don't need more enforcement, we don't need more definitions, we don't need more or less mechanics... What we need is bodies. We need people actually trying, whether they succeed or not. Some will have to learn, some will have to change their mindset, but in the end, the important part is actually RPing.  :)

Happy

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2010, 11:09:14 pm »
Then I ask if you have asked this community why they do not role play? Maybe they have a good reason why they joined a game that is called a "Role Play Game" and do not. I do not think it is because this game is free either.

Illysia

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2010, 11:50:12 pm »
This is an internet based game, so that means any and everybody gets to play it, regardless if they intended to roleplay from that start. Many don't realize that taking on your character is actually expected when they first play the game as there are technically many RPGs out there now and most don't require anything more than running around doing stuff. Honestly, I didn't intend to rp way back when I first started playing. But now that people are in the game, we can show them that it is more fun to rp than just run around and do stuff, and we can show them by being kind and helpful that rp isn't just for losers with nothing better to do with their time than bully people about minute settings details.  ;) Not to mention there is always the chance of bringing old players back if they peek in and see some of the fun stuff that made them play the game earlier. \\o//

Lhaa

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2010, 02:01:29 am »
I said I wouldn't flame this thread anymore and I won't. But let me address a few things:

@Happy: You can fool other people here but not me. Before coming back with this stupid nickname you have been opening dramatic threads here for months about how the community is dying and how the RP is dead. It's very hypocritical to come now here and whine about what you yourself did so many times before. And there is no nameless game you play, basically because in any true RP game your own inability to roleplay wouldn't be tolerated. Should I say who you are? Nah, I think everybody can figure it out.

@BloodedIrishman: I'll admit your long previous post was good for my ego, was a nice read, and I agree with 99% of what you said. But there's something I want to point out because I feel it's not fair for a few people: We did actually have some help with the RCO, but it was too few people (with real lives to make them busy) and not enough for what we wanted it to be, and so we said plenty of times. But those were always there when we needed help. So Lace, Jonoth and (in the last months) Haraun... I pull my hat off. Sorry if anybody else feels left aside here, I appreciate every single bit of help we had, just wasn't enough and for good or bad, these are the names that came to my mind now. Besides we can only beg for so long, the RCO stopped being active not only because of the lack of staff, but more because of the bugs and constant crashes that make me and other managers unable to make sure we'll be present in events we are meant to run. I missed the last one after working for it due to this, and that's something I won't stand twice.

@Illysia: This is for you not because I care about the welfare of the game, not even because I admire your patience and will to teach, but just because we still have a common project and I wish the best for it. This:
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just for losers with nothing better to do with their time than bully people about minute settings details.

Don't commit the same mistake than Weltall sending players to RP on IRC. Just because devs don't have a clue about what roleplaying means you don't have to go along with it and act the same. In fact, I am certain that you know much better.
And this quote above, at least how I read it, is a mistake. Not going to get now into why don't we know more about the setting or why some players felt bullied about this. But are you assuming that addressing a player about an off-setting behavior is bullying them?
This is the situation in PS: GMs won't do anything at all about this kind of thing simply because there are no rules about it, so even if they wanted which I doubt is the case, they can't. Devs prefer to keep the setting exclusive to those who waste their time running from X to Y for hours. On the other hand, when players try to address this to help other players and themselves, they are marked as bullies or RP-nazis at once. I have been labeled so many times that in the end I actually believed it and stopped trying myself as well. You though, have a much softer touch so should probably have no problem with it.
Besides the obvious statement that without critics there is no progress, sticking to a setting is (along with char development, common sense, being creative and some sense for acting) one of the main differences between roleplaying and using chat emotes on IRC. I know Weltall will never understand this, he can't do better, but I was sure you could.
It's true that using /me you can pretend anything you wish, this works on IRC because nobody will inquire where did you get that holy trout from. But letting newbies think that "I do because I can" is the way to go won't do any good. If you're going to teach new players, teach them about the setting and following it as well. Nobody else will do it unless you get other players to help. Tell them when they are off of it before you have to deal with dragons, ninjas, and Chuck Norris (wait, we already have a Chuck Norris). Seeing that you are the only one that is up for something like this, and that most newbies may as well go through your hands, it will be as beneficial for you, them, and the game.

I know you won't say it here, but some IG situations make me as uncomfortable as you, it'd be silly in my view to promote them instead of setting a solid base.

Sarras Volcae

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2010, 02:17:30 am »
the reason i don't rp much, other than not really liking it anyway, is because there's not enough conflict. the real world is a lot more interesting than planeshift. the game's too dull. player conflicts are always hung and have no real consequence to yliakum. for example, chasing jacula: he's never caught, none of the "main" characters seem to die, players aren't allowed to infiltrate the black flame, and obviously the government doesn't care.

boring

@Sarras: It's not being disingenuous, what I mean might have just gone over your head, and I did nothing to your point. More than likely the point you were making just wasn't strong enough on it's own.

or perhaps my point went waaay over your head?

Raekh

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #50 on: May 05, 2010, 02:21:51 am »
Very well said, Lhaa, relentlessly straight forward, unadorned and right to the point.

Illysia

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2010, 02:24:09 am »
What I mean, is that too often I hear more criticisms out of so called good RPers than RP. Anybody can sit back and criticize but that doesn't make them a superior RPer. More or less it breaks down to people showing each other a little respect and patience. True, some RPs are truly unacceptable, some are just wrong but it doesn't make a person evil for making a mistake, and some RPs are exemplary (even if they bend the rules a bit.  ;D *cough* Duraza, Lolitra *cough*  ;) ). At the end, people need to remember there is another person on the other end of that character and be considerate... on both sides, both well established RPers and new RPers.

@Sarras: Good for you, not everyone places the game for the adrenaline rush, some just like interacting. If you need conflict, then go find it, but some us play the game to get away from conflict. I personally don't need any extra, however RPing a profession is fun to me.

Rigwyn

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2010, 04:33:19 am »
Mathy, try picking a name that doesn't rhyme with ath or end in 'y'. ;)

And Sarras, not true. My character has been caught and beat up a few times, Jacula is a bit stronger. If you want to catch him I suggest you form a lunch lynch mob. I'm sure he would enjoy the surprise rp, though I can't speak for him.

As for infiltrating the black flame, Mellas already has.

As for real consequences like the oct sending some of us into the crystal .. you never know.. that could happen to my character any day .. and if it does happen .. oh well :)

The reason why there is no consequence is due to a lack of action on the goodie goodie side. Yall gotta get together an stomp out them baddies.

Keep in mind though .. if you permakill all the baddies, you end the conflict for good.  Thats why bad guys usually escape in movies.





edit: s/lunch/lynch/
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 06:59:06 pm by Rigwyn »

kaerli2

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2010, 06:30:53 am »
Sorry to digress, but this needs to be addressed:

Stages in the conjectured life of a hypothetical newbie:

1) The "What the heck do I want to be/why is char creation not working/too many decisions upfront/#$#$ what's with the naming policy" stage.  We need a better explanation of the naming policy in char creation...as most newbies aren't clueful enough to go hunting for it on the forums, it seems.  Also, the whole of character creation needs to be updated; I'm sure some of the stuff in there is quite obsolete at this point.
2) The "How do I move around/manage items/train stats&skills/use the quest mechanic/kill things/talk/cast spells" stage.  Fortunately, the tutorial mostly takes care of this, at least for the attentive newbies.  There is the major outstanding issue of the "simplified chat window" still being on by default...that and folks with limited English proficiency, but the latter's unavoidable.
3) The "This isn't implemented???/Why does training cost so much!/Where's something to kill?/How do I make a lot of money?/Where do I get X?" stage.  Being helpful within the bounds of good RP (you very much don't want to set a bad example for the newbies, of course)  is about the best you can do at this point, as most folk will simply get confused if you launch full-bore into the IC/OOC/settings 101 spiel at this point (even a basic IC/OOC elevator speech is enough to cause some heads to spin, sadly, as this is phase most newbies are in when they leave the tutorial and we first encounter them).
4) The "How do I use the various RP-oriented commands (/me, /roll, ...)/What's going on here?/What guild should I join?/What's this RP business about?/What's godmodding?" stage.  Again, being helpful is quite useful here; however, now is the time to really bring someone up to speed on roleplay.  A reasonably smart and attentive newbie can (but will not always) hit this stage coming out of the tutorial thanks to Xargon; however, most newbies need at least some gentle nudging to get past stage 3.  Also, there's the issue of guilds mass recruiting, some PL guilds are particularly notorious for this but many of the large guilds, including some ostensibly RP guilds, are guilty of mass recruiting.  See Note 1 at the bottom of this post.
5) The "Is this within Settings?/How do I roleplay X?/Do you think this fits my character?/How do I write a description?" stage.  Someone who reaches this stage is most likely going to mature into a competent roleplayer; however, not many newbies can get here without some tutelage from an experienced roleplayer.

Other stages that a newbie can reach:
a) The "Why is this so laggy?/Stop Crashing!!!/Why can't I see what I'm doing?/My computer sucks!/This game is too demanding!!!" stage.  This is something that most newbies (and many experienced players) hit.  Fortunately, most RPers are willing and able to take pity on the laggy, which helps tremendously.
b) The "This is too confusing!/Why aren't you just answering my question?/Why shouldn't I just join a PL guild?/I still don't get this RP business" stage.  This is typically a sign of i) someone who is bewildered to the point of frustration, ii) has been beat over the head with Settings too many times without someone actually stopping to explain the matter at hand to them, or iii) doesn't belong on a RP server. Cases i) and ii) can usually be handled with enough patience and graceful explanations; case iii) happens to be a lost cause, but isn't the common case for this stage fortunately.
c) The silent-newbie/stage-fright stage.  This often (but not always) coincides with stage 3 above, and can be caused by several factors, including limited English proficiency on the player's part, unfamiliarity with the chat system, and/or fear of making a mistake and letting slip with a remark that is actually OOC/out-of-Settings/pisses another player off/...  Most of this can be handled simply by being gentle enough OOCly to make them comfortable.
d) The "I hate you!/Your guild sucks compared to my guild!/RPing is for nerds and losers!/Stop trying to RP with me, you're wasting my valuable training/questing/mining time!/#$)@#$&*@#) you and your guild too!/" (other forms of griefing and childish/immature behavior are included too) stage.  There is one answer to these folks, especially if they do not respond to other forms of intervention, and that is to transfer them to EzPC, where they can misbehave all they want.  See Note 2 at the bottom of this post for some notes on what is and is not considered griefing in PS, as compared to other MMOs.
e) The "Oops, gotta go! *poof*" stage.  Don't worry, most of us are pretty understanding (or at least try to be) if your pizza just arrived, or if you have to take the dog out for a walk, or if you have an appointment in 30mins.
f) The hurry-hurry/rush-rush/run-everywhere/"hi-bye" stage.  This is often coupled with c).  See Note 3 at the bottom of this post.

I hope this sheds some light on some of the perplexing behavior observed among newbies...and provides some insight into how to teach them to RP :)

Note 1:
On Mass Recruiting:
Some guilds engage in the rather abominable practice of recruiting every newbie/non-guilded character they see.  This is problematic for three reasons: 1) it leads to "misfits" getting pulled into the guild and not lining up with the guild's purpose and role (which isn't an issue for the types of guilds that usually mass-recruit, though), 2) it means that newbies (who don't know jack squat about what guild to join) get dragged into PL/oversized/mis-managed guilds and denied the benefit of proper in-guild tutelage (which most RP guilds at least attempt to provide), and 3) it tends to starve RP guilds (who often cannot be highly active in recruiting due to time/size/tutelage limitations) of recruits.  Also, the mass-recruiting guilds all tend to be the same variety of guild: large, "general purpose" guilds that try to be anything and everything, at least to "goody-two-shoes" characters.  We already have too many of those on the RP server, don't we? ;)

Note 2:
On What Is (and Isn't) Griefing:
People coming from other MMOs often bring a different definition of griefing with them than is normally applied in PlaneShift.  In particular, the use of jumping up and down or running "through" someone is not as much of an issue in other games, while "drive-by" healing and buffing is considered more offensive in other games than it is in PS (at least to my understanding).

Note 3:
Time, MMOs, and Roleplaying:
RPing (as we all know) is a rather time consuming (and unpredictable) activity; this is in sharp contrast to typical high-level MMO play, where the player's time is considered highly valuable and expensive (and is thus not "wasted" on anything that is not absolutely necessary to the goal at hand).

kaerli2

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2010, 06:34:09 am »
Mathy, try picking a name that doesn't rhyme with ath or end in 'y'. ;)

And Sarras, not true. My character has been caught and beat up a few times, Jacula is a bit stronger. If you want to catch him I suggest you form a lunch mob. I'm sure he would enjoy the surprise rp, though I can't speak for him.

As for infiltrating the black flame, Mellas already has.

As for real consequences like the oct sending some of us into the crystal .. you never know.. that could happen to my character any day .. and if it does happen .. oh well :)

The reason why there is no consequence is due to a lack of action on the goodie goodie side. Yall gotta get together an stomp out them baddies.

Keep in mind though .. if you permakill all the baddies, you end the conflict for good.  Thats why bad guys usually escape in movies.







Yeah, Kaerli can turn Rigwyn into lunchmeat. ;) As for Jacula?  He got way lucky the last time he got into a scrape with Kaerli, that and Atagal's given him a few good scares too.  I think all the other baddies (with the sole exception of Kull) kind of go downhill in strength from Rigwyn... :P (I usually advise any baddies that I'm RPing with to not mess with Kaerli unless they want to wind up dead ;)

Sarras Volcae

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2010, 08:29:33 am »
And Sarras, not true. My character has been caught and beat up a few times, Jacula is a bit stronger. If you want to catch him I suggest you form a lunch mob. I'm sure he would enjoy the surprise rp, though I can't speak for him.

As for infiltrating the black flame, Mellas already has.

As for real consequences like the oct sending some of us into the crystal .. you never know.. that could happen to my character any day .. and if it does happen .. oh well :)

The reason why there is no consequence is due to a lack of action on the goodie goodie side. Yall gotta get together an stomp out them baddies.

Keep in mind though .. if you permakill all the baddies, you end the conflict for good.  Thats why bad guys usually escape in movies.

lol a lunch mob? by now the guards should have caught jacula, or an angry mob of civilians. mobs can easily overpower the strongest man alive, even if he knows krav maga and ninjutsu.

mellas is a bipolar floozy. she doesn't count.

i haven't heard of any executions issued by the octarchy yet. still, executions aren't big enough. there need to be bigger conflicts, real conflicts, such as wars and rebellion and... stuff

i don't think it should just be baddies versus goodies. surely there are characters with conflicting principles. both sides can believe their cause is morally right.

actually, in the movies i watch, the baddies get their brains blown out. if movies have sequels, the antagonist should always be a new character.

LigH

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2010, 08:40:46 am »
;) The more you write here, the less you roleplay in game... ;)

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bloodedIrishman

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2010, 09:06:25 am »

In a style of roleplay fighting where cloudy technicalities of power gained and power used in a person's unknown and assumed knowledge of magic or weaponry govern seniority, the players are doomed to lounge about, giving leeway to one popular person or the other and handing them the victory. In this manner of role play fighting these masters of warfare are handed their reins of power by some cosmic sense of kingly right.

Forget that bs. If your "assassin" has one in sword and one in light armor and a very descriptive outfit and months of "assassinations" by these styles of "combat", your character doesn't count for squat. Likewise a player should not count his or her character above the skill limits even if they have maxed them.

Be sensible about your character's strengths and weaknesses, don't act as if they deserve some birth right of deference in a "duel".

In WWE oiled-up dramatic guys in speedos play out a scripted play with their fellow actors, in Planeshift this same type of entertainment is much enjoyed. I don't.

Quote
i haven't heard of any executions issued by the octarchy yet. still, executions aren't big enough. there need to be bigger conflicts, real conflicts, such as wars and rebellion and... stuff

Yeah, the civilized inhabitants are in an odd and boring peace with each other, racism and sexism virtually not existent. In general there is not enough conflict. You are right, actually. When you mean "wars and rebellion and...stuff" I know what your talking about. I think everyone does. It's been talked about before, there isn't a looming danger that could spell doom for the free peoples of Yliakum. I mean there is, for example the Black Flame, but that isn't even apparent in-game and while the flame might be hiding and lurking in the shadows, no such danger or perceived threat is apparent in daily life. Except for those few who get to meet him and do their whatevers with their whomevers in their whatnot and such endeavors.



« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 09:27:32 am by bloodedIrishman »

Akkaido Kivikar

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2010, 09:30:24 am »
I'd just like to say I think your attempt at showing off dev player char names as some attempt to back up your point is pretty unacceptable Lhaa.

No matter the point, it's not cool to purposely tear away anonymity from those who ask for it.

weltall

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Re: Get out there and RP more!
« Reply #59 on: May 05, 2010, 11:01:23 am »
i'm not going to answer to another attempt of flame and fud.