Do you or Don't you care?

[Vilthis Trayus]

The answer to the questions you ask is the response from the community. There has been too much emphasis on forcing behavior in this game, and it has not leaned towards keeping players in the game. When something is working there is at least a partial feeling of effortlessness that comes into play; something that works will gather its own momentum. And unfortunately there are other situations that are not helping the Stonehead by proximity. Since we appear to be in an ebb phase with regards to the community, I would also caution that making any judgements regarding the Stonehead at this time would probably be erroneous as there are too few people playing. Wait a while, try again.

I share Eldoth views with with regards to 'forcing' behaviours in game and his commentaries relating to how organic these things should manifest.
I would also like to add that it is rather sanctimonious of you Illysia to assert that whatever that is beyond your view and non partisan to your activities does not qualify as RP contribution. While I acknowledge your efforts to generate interest in Role Play (Which somehow in my view has always been prevalent), you only quite focused on the demographics of people who RP as the merry making reveller arch types and expecting the diverse portfolio of people to fit into those standard tin boxes called your 'personal expectations'. We are individuals.

We always had exciting RPs around like the beautifully written and recently concluded Bloodline Arc (Outlaw folks) along with the Tensions in Ojaveda featuring the Kore Irka Clan and House Cheshire, the Tapestry of Secrets, and more recently the Legacy of Cabal which is ongoing. Stop bloating your own ego like you're the only person crusading to resurrect RP. Your post seem to sanctimoniously deem other people's RP inferior at best and non existent at worst.

As to your initiatives: Have some patience! No initiatives manifest overnight! [Your Poll for Stonehead started only 2 days ago for instance] Even people who wrote the story of the flying spaghetti monster(Bible) featuring an illusionary ominipotent entity thinks 7 days is a reasonable duration to build the world -  You're no where near that omnipotence so just give time to watch it grow.

The simple formula for good RP in my humble opinion is simply to just keep into to settings, have fun and let time take it's course.

Thank you for reading.

  

[Akkaido Kivikar]

Well, I have to say in some respects I agree with Vilthis, however, I think Illysia was merely empassioned with her crusade to resurrect RP at the Stonehead and overlooked these other RPs.

I care for the Stonehead, however, I rarely play on a character other than Akaiddo, and it's a rarity for him to travel as far as Hydlaa, let alone Gugrontid, so that's why I'm never about. To my character, staying in Ojaveda and ensuring its security is more important than heading off for a beer all the way over in Gugrontid.

I must agree with Vilthis on the patience. It's only been a week since you really resurrected the Stonehead, and as such it will take a fair amount of time to get busy. Give it time.

And really, don't expect players to change their character's RPs to come out to Gugrontid for RP. It'd be OOC for half of us to head out that way, that's just the way things are.

[Illysia]

I'm glad you two think I'm sanctimonious, but keep in mind I've been at this awhile. I'm glad, that this took so long before off topic criticisms came into it. (On this forum that is a miracle) But this is minor compared with that usually goes on around here. *shrugs* It's not calling what RP is out there absolutely nothing, it is getting people to wake up and pay attention. I remember when there was around 120 people on in a day, RP was so common that people were even RPing at Harns and more often at Oja, and falling into an RP was easier than falling in a log.

Look around now, your individual RPs aren't quite that spanning and you know good and well that RP is not as prevalent as it could and should be. Nothing wrong with your RPs, but do understand that your feeling personally pricked doesn't change there has been rather large and unfortunate changes in game. Also, if I wasn't being patient I would be gone already like the rest of the people that used to be on in the course the day. Apparently you don't realize how many people are lurking around the edges waiting to come back in game when the community looks to be half way recovered. Whether or not you agree, I have far more experience in this than a few posters are giving me credit for. I have likely been starting and supporting RPs in this game longer than you have been around Vilthis and I didn't even start playing as a RPer. Akkaido, you should have been around long enough know exactly why this is necessary.

Give me some credit to have some sense of patience as this is not the first time I've gotten the Stonehead up and that I have been working in the background for a bit more than a week. The purpose of this thread goes beyond talking to those still in game but also calling to those lurking around that will not come back in because the level of RP is not satisfactory.

I don't mind criticism so much but you two have no amount of your own medicine coming for thinking that it hasn't occured to me wait and that somehow in one day this thread has served it's purpose. If it is because of my responses to people, it's called appreciation... I am glad people stopped by and bothered to say they care. I even actually do respect the people that don't care. I'd like to know, up front, what kind of ratios I am dealing with.

This thread won't serve its purpose for some time yet. I tried being nice and pleading but that hasn't been nearly as affective in getting peoples attention. Also, I have a right to say I don't feel like taking on a job if no one cares. You try it some times and see how long you tolerate people messing with you for messing with you sake, sitting around for nights at a time with absolutely no one to RP with for the sake of having the tavern open in case someone wants to come, and struggling to provide a comfortable enough environment that even those scared to RP will come and RP. (That takes more than just reassuring people that it is ok and RPing with them.)

It takes a lot of work and effort to maintain the atmosphere of the Stonehead, and keep staff working without a guild structure to support it. You're human like me, you wouldn't be eager to run into right into a great deal of struggling either. Next time someone decides to throw sanctimonious around, think more on the greater purpose of the post, and check to see whether or not you are actually a part of the group being addressed. Also, please stay on topic and refrain from stuff that can spin in to arguments. I know you've seen the battleground the forum has become as of late. This thread serves a purpose, whether you agree or not, and I don't want it degenerating into a mud slinging contest like many other threads have.

Oh and no, it won't take awhile to get busy... There in lies the whole point. Since I've posted this, way more people have decided to stop by and RP there. As I have been saying for some time now, people need to know that it is ok to RP, that there are people that are ready to RP, and that it is expected. I did the pleading thing already and got ignored a great deal. It's just time to be a bit more firm is all.


Long story short: Please leave your personal offense at the door as the part you take offense at wasn't even directed at you. I wouldn't say "Not RPing" to someone that is. I apologize, if I didn't write even more in the first post so that it was overly clear who I wasm addressing.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

In case you didn't read my first post clearly:

I agreed with Vilthis on a few points, but didn't think you were being sanctimonious etc etc.

It just felt like the whole thread was a little "WE NEED TO SAVE RP, HERES HOW." and I feel that alot of RPers like to RP wherever they please.

I wasn't offended, I accept that my recent absence due to university and making things to go in this game has caused a lull in my RP field. But I will build that up. My post was simply a friendly "Hey Illysia, I do care, but it's not in my IC nature to be at the Stonehead."

In other words, I'm with you in OOC spirit. Just, remember that RP is for all of Yliakum, not just the alcoholic beverage providers

[Rigwyn]

While I've always enjoyed war-like rp a lot more than illysia's more social/civilized flavor of rp I would recomend to anyone who is serious about rp to make a character that would fit in and give it a shot. It was a mind opener for me to see how people can get pleasure out of rp without bashing in each other's heads. While its not really for me, I can say that I tried it and as a result, have a little more respect for those who rp this way.
Before my free time got dried up I was hoping to get sillamon involved in order to lrarn more from this crowd.

I recently saw the movie "avatar" and was deeply impressed by concept of "plant roots" and the interconnectivity butween the planet's inhabitants and nature itself. This connectivity was their treasure. It bound them together.
The civilized rp that illysia,lhaa and aiwendil have promoted is in my opinion about this. Interconnectivity, bonding.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when characters are *connected* or *networked* they tend to react to things *together*. What happens to one character affects multiple characters.
Also players begin to *bond* and form lasting friendships which strengthens the community further.

[Illysia]

@akkaido:Trust me akkaido. I noticed.

I acknowledged that people might not want to sit in the tavern, but RP is dying and someone needs to do something. RP in PS is too special to let it faze out as it is doing. For anyone that disagrees, I point to the steady decline in player numbers. It hasn't recovered in years, and it only keeps getting worse. At its current rate, there will be no players and no RP within a year or two.

The point is not to say "RPing in the Stonehead" is the only acceptable form of RP and never was. Besides, you can RP at the stonehead without being there for chatting. It is a tavern just like Kada's and you can do all sorts of RP, it just has to be reasonable. Use your imagination. "Maintaining the atmosphere" there is not the same "holding hands and sing the Barney song and Kumbaya" all day. I just won't accept say a sloppy murder plot there.

@Rigwyn: It did my heart a lot of good when you first told me what you learned from us. Basically you are right. The understated fact is that it is hard to have "exciting" RPs without the kind of stuff that happens at the Stonehead. Characters do need to be connected for events to happen. Otherwise you end up with a script where you know exactly what happens and when.

If you say attack one character, then find out later they had ties to this group, and you through interesting connections have ties to a rival group, that could lead to an epic conflict. But if your guild just decides to declare war on another guild... It can lose some of the flair and flavor it could have had. It was these connections that made the RPs of the past and why old old oldbies shake their heads when they talk about recent stuff. People have to interact more than smacking each other in the head occasional, you can't tell a good story without it. Underlying stories are the heart of RP.

[jaculapundactum]

From what I have seen attempting to resurrect the RP community is a demanding and unappreciated task. Personally I've had a lot of fun in the stonehead during big events such as the Unodin festival, and I agree that the casual networking RP can lead to interesting future interactions with the players involved. Then again, I much like Rigwyn prefer a different style of RPing. With that said, rather than inquiring if I or someone else cares you should ask yourself the same question. Keeping in mind the unappreciated nature of this kind of indulgence, I say put your own interest first. If you would truly enjoy such a task as this, power to you.  If not, find another way to spend your summer. Relaxing in the sun perhaps?

[Vilthis Trayus]

I did the pleading thing already and got ignored a great deal. It's just time to be a bit more firm is all.

I tried being nice and pleading but that hasn't been nearly as affective in getting peoples attention. Also, I have a right to say I don't feel like taking on a job if no one cares. You try it some times and see how long you tolerate people messing with you for messing with you sake, sitting around for nights at a time with absolutely no one to RP with for the sake of having the tavern open in case someone wants to come, and struggling to provide a comfortable enough environment that even those scared to RP will come and RP.

I did advocate patience.

I too felt the thread was a little "WE NEED TO SAVE RP, HERES HOW." as Akkaido has put. It read as sanctimonious to me. My point is, I do care and I acknowledge your efforts, but to dismiss constructive criticism as a off-topic mud sling? I don't buy the oldbie superiority complex wishing you to be more forward looking, this is now and we will make the future work. My point is simple - Whine less, work more. Make Stonehead successful.

I am supportive of your initiative.

[Illysia]

@Jacula: I wouldn't bother with this question if I didn't care. I do enjoy doing this, it's just that it is a package deal. The stuff I don't enjoy about it can easily outweigh the stuff I do like at times and so it's better to a check early than spend time later thinking I wasted my time. I'm one of those people that prefers this kind of RP, I have a service oriented nature. Not to mention, I got drama in RL I don't need it in my games too.  The problem is providing a service no one wants is like selling ice in the north pole, you might as well pack it up and go home.

@Vilthis: It's ironic you would accuse me of the oldbie superiority complex Vilthis, I guess that proves you really are unfamiliar with my past efforts. The criticism is less the problem as the nature of the forum. Go back some day and look at the many locked threads and see how many started with constructive criticism and degenerated into flame wars before being locked. My concern is valid. It is just that, like I said, you haven't been around long enough to know these things yet. If you have more constructive criticism just PM me, I am dead serious about this thread not degenerating into the muck that others have. However, I appreciate both you and Akkaido's support.

[Anumesa]

I'm going to break my own "lurker" status here and reply to this thread because I really respect you Illysia

Please don't take this in a bad way because its going to sound terrible..im being honest and don't intend for this to come across as an attack or anything.

Honestly at this point, I don't care. I have absolutely zero interest in even trying to get my client to work at this point (knowing that it would likely be a headache and a half). I have school and work, and am currently studying abroad so tbh PS is the absolute last thing on my mind right now. Is that to say that Soselie won't ever appear and clean the floors again? No, definitely not---however, am I going to make an effort to log in any time soon? No.

My interest in the game has slowly dwindled over the past few years to the point right now where honestly i could give a rats a** about what happens to it. I lurk the forums and the irc channel out of a loyalty to the good friends both past and present that this game has blessed me with. I appreciate PS for what it was--it got me through a tough transition freshman year in college and, through the people I met, inspired me to travel the world (..and am currently in the process of doing this).

I say in the end, make the decision for YOU, not based on what others are going to do. The PS phase of my life is over and ive moved on to bigger and better things--if you feel that it is your time then by all means live your life! Enjoy your summer, go to the beach!!

[Talad]

We are pretty aware of the players decreasing and there are a number of factors connected to that:
1) The new server update didn't go well for everyone, and many are just waiting a new full distro to get into the game again
2) New players are coming at a constant rate, but these days they are split between ezpc and skylab servers, and ezpc is slowly growing, and rebalancing the situation we had before with just one server.
3) 0.5.3 seems to be less stable than 0.5.2.1 for some players and platforms, again I think some are waiting the next update to fix their issues.
4) The fun factor is surely a problem, and even if the game evolved, it's not yet at the point we would like it to be.

We are working on all the items above, fun factor included. A number of quite important changes are coming to address the items above. Obviously I don't like to see players number decreasing, but I'm sure more players will come when we release new features, and PS is getting better every day. Let's say that players are just more demanding seeing the games present on the market I'm very confident in what PS can become, and I suggest you to continue to have fun, invite your friends to play, and support us as you are doing. We will work on making PS better and in getting more players as well.

[Rigwyn]

I really dont think there is a huge pool of roleplayers waiting to jump in. I think that's wishful thinking. There are other free roleplaying games out there and as anumesa hinted, there is real life too.
Once you become untangled from the game its much easier to close the door on it. If you want an rp community again I think it will need to be grown member by member. Perhaps if the soil moist and there's
the right balance of light, warmth and stress.. Then who knows, perhaps something will evolve.

Do I care ?

In as much as I would like to see planeshift become a haven for rp, yes.
But at the moment I'm taking a break and trying something new.

I think that now that most of the players are gone you have the opportunity to rebuild the community from the ground up.
Get the ominous wipe out of the way while the player base is tiny.
Make a set of rules that firmly support roleplaying and discourage grinding on skylab.
Cultivate the soil so to speak.
With a fertile environment and some support who knows, something very special might grow now that there is plenty of room.

A number of good role players have left because the rules for rp were too lax for their taste.
While nobody was to be told what they can ir cannot do, such rules are a small price to pay if they ensure that everyone will meet a decent standard of rp.
When you are new to rp, you don't mind rping with people who are reckless. As you get better you want to have less to do with those who don't value quality rp.


I don't know how rp originally started in planeshift, but it might be inspiring for some to hear about that.

[Illysia]

It's not so much that they are chomping at the bit to come back, but if there was an interesting and vibrant community, you'd be surprised how nostalgic people would become and just how many people would come back. (even with other MMOs and RL) That lack of a vibrant community is basically the reason it's so easy to detach from the game. As for building from the ground up, starting from scratch would take years again and you'd more or less have to reestablish everything as active standards would be pretty thin. I'm fairly ambitious in my aims to revitalize the community but that's not something I would take on by myself. That is more than even a whole guild could take on, even with the current size of the player base. However, if such a thing could be done I'd be all for it.

[Rigwyn]

Illysia, I don't think the community is that far from being completely dead. There are a hand full of roleplayers left. If I were running the game I would get them together and ask them where they would like to see the game go and what they would like to see change to make this community vibrant again.
One they go, your at ground zero.

[Illysia]

Well Rig, the biggest issue is that there's not enough players. But that won't correct itself over night. Until the retention rate goes up there isn't much to do in rebuilding. The RP community isn't THAT close to being dead. It's just pretty bad off. All it needs is people committed to building it back up. But again we come back to the retention rate. Once there are more people in an area to RP with each other it won't be so bad.