Automated crash reports

[thob]

Heya,

just started this game after some time. I had a crash (well I don't complain about that) and at the end I got this:
"""A report containing only information strictly necessary to identify this problem will be sent to the PlaneShift developers.
Please consult the PlaneShift forums for more details.
Attempting to upload crash report.""" followed by a libcurl exception.

I dont know how you think about this,  but I think this is totally WRONG. We have discussions about net neutralism, data protection (google and their street view cars) all over the world. I thought open source was open source, cause it uses other methods than big companies, cause it does not harvest data about their users (I know, this is not the point about open source, but a point in the ideology).

I know, this is about "user friendliness" for you, but why not ask the users to be so kind to open a ticket at the bugtracker?

Because nobody does? Well, thats not true. And I dont think that automated bug reports help much.

Unfortunately, for me, another detail why PlaneShift becomes unplayable. I hope you got the point.

cheers, thob

PS: "Please consult the PlaneShift forums for more details." Uhm.. where?

[neko kyouran]

it generates nothing more than system specs, what was going on with the game when the crash happens, etc.

no different, than say a report you submit to Blizzard when WoW crashes, or when you send stats to NVidia/ATi when you are troubleshooting video card/driver issues, or heck, even when communicating with Microsoft when you are troubleshooting code running on their OS, if you're a programmer that if part of a company that is a Microsoft partner like I am.

Without basic knowledge of the system setup the software is running on at the time of the issue, it becomes near impossible to determine what exactly the issue could be that caused the crash.

For years and years PS has reported this information into a crash dump file, that the user then had to go find on their hard drive and manually email it to a dev's email address.  The automated uploader was put in place, as it streamlines the process for all parties involved.

Do remember that this is a game that is in alpha/beta testing.  It is not a completed game, crashes will happen, and getting crash logs helps the team fix them.

[thob]

Let the user decide if he/she wants to upload the dump file!
I dont use Microsoft, WoW, ATi... this is no argument for me. We do it, cause others do it aswell.

[verden]

Better to open a feature request in the bug tracker asking to allow the user to choose to upload, view or save the crash report. Nobody's trying to take advantage of any user data here, believe me, its all they can do to try and keep the project somewhat under control. Besides, the ramifications of a program like the game client running on your machine are much larger than simply what can be emailed off of it. And the code for the client is open, so this function should be available for scrutiny in the CVS. Also, I was under the impression that this crash report was a function of the operating system, but I'll take Neko's word for it.

[neko kyouran]

Also, I was under the impression that this crash report was a function of the operating system, but I'll take Neko's word for it.

You're thinking of the windows "this program has failed and would you like to send a report to Microsoft about it" pop ups you occasionally get most likely.   PS has it's own built in crash information collecting part to it.

When the game crashes, ti makes an output file which is essentially a memory dump of what the program was doing when it stopped doing what it was supposed to be doing.  Heck, it's been so long since I looked at that, that that may be all it writes down to file, and your basic system specs and what not aren't even saved with the report at all. 

Feel free to browse the tech help forums, you'll see old threads all about the program making dump files and asking the user to upload the file to the team.  And people making threads about that with questions about how to go about doing that and what not. 

most the time, the users thought all they had to do was push ok to make the file and then make a post about it, without ever giving the team the report file.

[kaerli2]

I dealt with the manual crash report system. IT SUCKED.  First, Lanarel was never around when you needed him (so that you could submit your dump).  Second, the client debug symbols went AWOL for a large part of 0.4.x, which disabled dump-debugging altogether...   I actually kind of pushed for the automatic system (we use Google Breakpad, which is an open-source crash-reporting library used by Firefox and others in addition to PS).

[Sen]

most the time, the users thought all they had to do was push ok to make the file [...]

Why not make an ok / not ok button?
There are people who feel bad if some of their data (I really intend to say 'their' data) gets sent somewhere else, and thus worse if it is done without their permission. I believe one workaround for what thob basically asks for is e.g. a popup where it asks for that permission.

Sen

#edit# Changed last sentence

[steuben]

everytime a crash report doesn't get submitted the blackflame consumes a kitten. please think of the kittens.

[novacadian]

Why not make an ok / not ok button?

It certainly warrants an entry in someone's TODO list; if only to make new users sleep more soundly. 

[verden]

Actually, I was thinking about the crash reporter dialog on the Macintosh.

[Idoru]

I also raised this issue on IRC a few days ago. There are serious legal ramifications for distributing customer data from within the EU to people outside the EU without -explicit- consent. WoW has a confirmation box before sending such data.

AB is leaving itself open to some  quite serious legal charges if anyone ever refers this situation to the authorities. I would suggest that the crash reporter is disabled very quickly until confirmation is implemented.

[edit]

If someone were to post a completely unedited crash log here it may put people's minds at rest.

[kaerli2]

Lock thread please and move further discussion to PS#4554

[bilbous]

for what it is worth: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?&task_id=4185
there doesn't seem to be anyone working to make sure the crash reports actually get sent anyway.

[thob]

heya,

And the code for the client is open, so this function should be available for scrutiny in the CVS.

Right, same with Googles browser. Wich used to sent a lot of data until the users protestet. The problem is _that_ it sends automated crash report. Not what this report contains (for me).

I believe one workaround for what thob basically asks for is e.g. a popup where it asks for that permission.

Right.

Lock thread please and move further discussion to PS#4554

Uhm.. why? This is a much better place for discussion. And often there are parallel discussion threads here .

\o thob

PS: Still looking for "Please consult the PlaneShift forums for more details."...

[RlyDontKnow]

for what it is worth: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?&task_id=4185
there doesn't seem to be anyone working to make sure the crash reports actually get sent anyway.

that's not true, however it's hard to get libcurl working across all distributions. I hope it works this time, however I cannot guarantee it.

I believe one workaround for what thob basically asks for is e.g. a popup where it asks for that permission.

sure it'd be nice to have such a popup, however there's currently no dev around who's familiar enough with the crashreport code to change it to show a popup, etc.

if someone would like to write a patch to change the popups/add them (depending on the platform) so it allows the user to deny the upload, that'd surerly be appreciated. the whole code is available at the svn repo (I think src/tools/breakpad has it somewhere)