Getting PP

[Sarva]

If your character has gone through the tutorial then you should have enough PPs and trias from the tutorial to buy the initial level of training in several skills, like metallurgy and mining. Also for metallurgy you can get trias and PPs form the quest needed to get the book so you can do Met.  At least for the early levels in Met you earn more PPs form the practice you do in met so you can level up than you need for the training so at least in the early levels of met you come out ahead in terms of PPs earned vs PPs used for training.

The same applies for blacksmith and sword crafting since you earn PPs during the various steps involved with making a sword/dagger. for mining you get 1/2 PP for ever ore you get so get 10 ores needed to make a stock of iron or steel and you earn 5 PPs.

In general the Devs have been shooting for a system where you earn enough PPs practicing a skill to cover the next level of PPs needed for the next level or training. from what I have seen in different skills you  get more Pps than you need  for your next level if training in that skill. compared to the PPs earned in other skills getting 10 PPs for killing a rat would be out of balance since you would get enough PPs to cover the initial PPs needed for leveling sword in your first or second rat and then you would be just stockpiling lots of extra Pps until you are ready to level your sword level. Now you do need extra Pps to train your physical stats, since you don't earn PPs using your stats but the questions is should the excess Pps earned form killing be so much out of balanced compared to what you earn practicing other skills. Having killing be so out of balance just encourages everyone to be kilers vs a more balanced system that gives people additional career paths.

[kaerli2]

None of this changes the fundamental problem with PPs though:

Characters whose IC role doesn't map to a PP-yielding skill (healers and merchants are the obvious cases, but others exist too often have to go OOC (or run lots of quests, which can be very unattractive in terms of time/reward ratio) to get PPs in order to obtain even a basic modicum of training.

[RlyDontKnow]

finding a good way to get PP for healers is still flying around, however it's hard to come up with an idea that isn't exploitable for plvling characters with an already existing high-up one (as commonly observed in major mmos).
for merchants it's even harder to come up with something that isn't exploitable :x

[Sarva]

Hopefully Healers may have a way to IC'ly earn Pps when Alchemy becomes active or herbalism. Maybe a merchant offers weapon and armor repair ( weapons repair seems to be the much better PP generating skill. Repairing higher Q weapons sometimes gets you 25+ PPs at least for me. Maybe when tool repair is working that might be a way for a mostly merchant type to warn Pps. After all offering repair services might be reasonable for a merchant so that he can sell a replacement if an item can't be fixed.

Also I suppose some kind of method where players can reward each other PPs to help encourage RP. I know people feel this kind of thing can be exploited but my idea would have these features.

The amount of PPs one player could give to another would be capped at some level  ( like a max of 10 PPs)
One player could only give a specific player PPs once every 24  RL hours ( so one player couldn't just keep giving another player 10 PPs at a time all day long)
The PPs given to another player would come from the PPs of the giving player. So if I give you 10 PPs my PP total goes down by 10.

It would be up to the giving player why they are giving the PPs to another player, maybe as payment for a job, maybe just to reward a good RP maybe to support characters like healers and merchants who don't normally earn PPs for practicing their crafts.

[Knightspark9]

If your character has gone through the tutorial then you should have enough PPs and trias from the tutorial to buy the initial level of training in several skills, like metallurgy and mining. Also for metallurgy you can get trias and PPs form the quest needed to get the book so you can do Met.  At least for the early levels in Met you earn more PPs form the practice you do in met so you can level up than you need for the training so at least in the early levels of met you come out ahead in terms of PPs earned vs PPs used for training.

The same applies for blacksmith and sword crafting since you earn PPs during the various steps involved with making a sword/dagger. for mining you get 1/2 PP for ever ore you get so get 10 ores needed to make a stock of iron or steel and you earn 5 PPs.

In general the Devs have been shooting for a system where you earn enough PPs practicing a skill to cover the next level of PPs needed for the next level or training. from what I have seen in different skills you  get more Pps than you need  for your next level if training in that skill. compared to the PPs earned in other skills getting 10 PPs for killing a rat would be out of balance since you would get enough PPs to cover the initial PPs needed for leveling sword in your first or second rat and then you would be just stockpiling lots of extra Pps until you are ready to level your sword level. Now you do need extra Pps to train your physical stats, since you don't earn PPs using your stats but the questions is should the excess Pps earned form killing be so much out of balanced compared to what you earn practicing other skills. Having killing be so out of balance just encourages everyone to be kilers vs a more balanced system that gives people additional career paths.

I'm not suggesting for 10 PPs from a rat. However, a little more couldn't hurt, nor would it be out of balance.

[novacadian]

For what it's worth for only observation sake....

My character is only a hunter. They have never had a pick axe in their grip. They have done one quest for the Library; maybe another one or two can't remember. Although levelling at a steady pace their pps are stockpiling. They are now on their third teacher for their choice of weapon. Each level they have more pps after levelling than when they levelled before.

Maybe they will hit a wall and really need those pps; yet it is looking like they won't.

Again perhaps there is something being overlooked by me yet when they level and they have a little yellow in the bar of the next level they go and use pps to train some green in that small area. They then go out and find a monster that is just on the edge of their ability and the skill points come sailing fast an furious.

A level in their choice of weapon was achieved that way during their first pass through the Eagle Gobble settlement.

It is my feeling that the grinders, as they seem to be called, are making the mistake of staying with the same territory and same mobs. They are not pushing limits. When limits are pushed levelling seems no grind at all.

If armourers are getting +25 pps to repair my character's longsword so that they can go out and make a level then there seems to be some imbalance in the equation somewhere.

At the moment my character has 3000+ surplus pps. Again, perhaps there is some wall that it will be nice to have them when reached. Yet at the moment they just seem to be surplus.

- Nova

[ Disclaimer : The facts stated in the above post are not scientific in nature and only observational. ]

[Elly-b]

I am going to comment this weapon repair thing now: Keella is training it and let me tell you there's no advantage in doing it. First you start with really basic weapons (daggers at best as it stands for now) and you have to fix about a dozen to reach your first level and double that number for the next and so on. Now where will you get that many ruined daggers when the new players just get rid of them the first occasion because 1) they made enough tria in one way or another or 2) they were given a finest weapon (which happens a lot but that is another subject). Point being not one of those I've given an regular dagger (or any other weapon) returns to me for a fix (that I promised to be FREE!) so I'm not progressing anywhere cos  I NEED those. Now each repair eats one repair kit which costs me 100 tria so it is at least 1200 tria only on the first level (when I find the weapons to fix) and increases over next levels without taking into account the tria I need to gain the next level. The amount of PP I am and was getting for repairing a weapon of that kind is in the range of 1 to 5 usually and it took me more than 20-30 levels to get to the point to repair those Q300 weapons. And only now I am able to do repairs for others since most of those who care to have it owns that kind of weapon and now I am finally getting about 25-40 PPs for a repair (but only for an expensive weapon that is greatly ruined) which I find only fair. Because I still loose tria doing it, it takes me dozens and dozens repairs to get to the next level and I still need to get to the point when I'll be able to repair most weapons available. And let me say that my char (that is a crafter/merchant by trade) is not making much tria out of her trade really... who wants some mediocre weapons she can make on her own when her husband can assemble the high quality ones (not that I complain about that, we do function great as a team).  Darn, I was too long this time but that is my view of just a portion of the subject. And yes I had to go OOC and do some hunting in the past to earn me the PP's needed to advance in my chosen skills and loot some weapons that I'll ruin just so I could train. Same goes for armor which is even harder and gets you 1PP each repair regardless of anything. And who will have their armor repaired when mobs drops it whenever you need it (even HA if you are a skilled hunter/mage to do it).

[Bonifarzia]

Also I suppose some kind of method where players can reward each other PPs to help encourage RP. I know people feel this kind of thing can be exploited but my idea would have these features.
...

Pointing at another disscussion about PP, picking out a few lines:

I would like to add another idea here,...
...  a game feature where players can act in the same way as NPC trainers. ...
...  a mechanism of training that does not destroy overall tria, put excressent PP - without much potential of abuse, I assume.

The two ideas can maybe work together... a teaching skill as discussed in some (actually, many!) other threads, but with the new concept that the teacher spends PP to ease the learning process of the student. PP "transfer" is then limited by the training progress of the awarded character.

About weapon repair as a source of experience, notice the amazing prefactor for the costs of the theory lessons. Maybe skilled crafters will one day have better ways to repair enchanted weapons and armor, such that their training efforts will finally amortize.

[Vakachehk]

finding a good way to get PP for healers is still flying around, however it's hard to come up with an idea that isn't exploitable for plvling characters

Or maybe you should just block those players from the RP server and move them over to the EZPCUSA (OOC server)
I have a merchant alt and he needs PP to train in Strength to hold more in his inventory. So... you can't do trading, selling or profits. But what Bonifarzia said... thats an idea and I back it up.

Sarva I have a farmer character he has trained in Harvesting and I know for sure it is not balanced, it is only a very small bit like 5-50PP (depending on level) but when you level more higher the gap where you don't have enough PP enlarges and could go right up to 5000PP going from levels 99-100 (if that is implemented I don't know).

Perlan, im not saying 100PP so you can fully not save up for stats, I am saying a little, to get started on another skill/stat.
I agree with Nightspark9 10PP will cover Armor and Weapon training and a little to go towards some stats and also other skills.

[Trikitiger]

After when you can kill Diseased Rats, you can get 5 PP, but because about 200 XP is about 1 PP (Seems to be how I gain PP, cause a One-Eyed-Rat gives me 200 XP, and 1 PP, and a Diseased Rat gives me 1000 XP and 5 PP), What level am I? I have no idea, but as far as I've seen, the only way to gain PP is to slay monsters. Not really a good way for a character with Artistry or Merchant skills to really live, is it? "I'm an artist! I slay monsters for a living! :D" If anything, gaining PPs should be a little universal, sell an item, get some experience, maybe gain a PP. Gain some Skill points for a skill to level up, gain a little xp for that PP (except for combat skills!). Just saying that a little more rounding out in how you gain PP may help.

[novacadian]

...as I've seen, the only way to gain PP is to slay monsters. Not really a good way for a character with Artistry or Merchant skills to really live, is it? "I'm an artist! I slay monsters for a living! "

There are no skill points to be had when creating a piece of art? Perhaps that is where the pps should be gained so as to reduce the risk of abuse. It had been my assumption that all skills gave pps through learn by doing as a hunter can gain them via combat.

If not then they definitely should be allotted that way in my opinion.

- Nova

[Earowo]

...as I've seen, the only way to gain PP is to slay monsters. Not really a good way for a character with Artistry or Merchant skills to really live, is it? "I'm an artist! I slay monsters for a living! "

im sure this has been answered already >.> but its past midnight and i dont want to read this thread, becuase vakachek has already made half a million just like this one
hunting isnt the only way for pp
WAYS OF PP:
Questing
Killing things
Crafting
Awards from GM
Making monsters give you loot
Cooking
Hunting
Baking

[Matlush]

Got an idea of getting PP through RP, from other players.

A player, could give 1 PP point each 10 CHARISMA or 10 WILL stats (or any other) he has per day. A player can receive max 5 PP from one player a day, and maybe 100 from everyone, then he can get another PP from that player in a week/month. This could be earned through roleplaying bard-like things: telling stories, singing a song, or whatever, but not necesserly.

Yep, this system could be abused, but I think the delay between giving one person PP could minimalize this. Also, there could be a limit for those who are in the same guild to give each other max 2 PP, and max 3-4 for friends and ppl with whom we have talked privately the same day (or 2 hours delay). Public situations could be monitored by GMs (maybe by logs?),  so when one gets these PP for nothing, GM could check this situation and take PP away (not taking levels ofcourse, but maybe giving a PP debt if one has 0 PP)

Also, there could be a rule, that a person which receives these points had to use the local chat up to 10 minutes earlier.

And sorry, if my post is hard to understand - I'm not a native English speaker

[novacadian]

Perhaps game mechanics could be employed to help to avoid abuse, Matlush. It the case of a bard singing a song then the audience could either /applaud bard or /boo bard and depending on how the votes balance out either give or take pps from them. 

- Nova

[Matlush]

Well, I thought this thing not only for bards, but for roleplay in general. Could give people a reason to skill charisma. People with high charisma could give other guests for PP more often.

For example, a Lemur who stops an Ylian fight should receive some PP from RP-fair community.
Listening and aiding a Stonebreaker's pain while drinking beer could bring some PP.
Saving someone from death, showing someone the way to Ojaveda.

And IMO, GMs should only take pps from people who'd like to abuse this system, like non RP PP trading. But still, I don't believe it could be used to power level with these limits.