Tell Disable

[Geoni]

You are correct Bonifarzia. My wish would be that the Tells and Whispers be separated with the Tells having the ability to be disabled by players. The Whisper should then only work within a smaller range than Main.

- Nova

Even if it was misunderstood by him, I talked to weltall about this yesterday which turned into an argument. He's not going to impliment it because he thinks that [whispers] isn't even needed and that it should be called [tells] instead of [whispers]. Little things like this is why I'm losing faith in the PS team.

[Geoni]

Yes I've seen that and more. I find it unprofessional the way developer politics were dealt with and now I know why most of the developers or members of the team that supported the settings and pushed the development towards becoming a unique RP game aren't here any longer. Every nice little suggestion like this one that players throw out as ideas to improve RP are scowled upon, torn up, and burned as if it was an enemy flag.

[novacadian]

He's not going to impliment it because he thinks that [whispers] isn't even needed and that it should be called [tells] instead of [whispers].

Well a toggle on Tells/Whispers is fine by me. Going without Whisper would be ok with me. Should someone initiate a whisper in Main then the feature could be engaged for that RP and then disengaged again when the RP is finished.

If it is a player only toggle then it should not disrupt those that do not wish to toggle off the feature and it should meet the criteria of Weltall as well should it not?

Weltall also thinks grinding is RPing a warrior...

It is my belief that the game mechanics should reflect character development as well and grinding, as you call it, is a part of my character's way of life. To not see it as such is like suggestion that doing a dungeon crawl in D&D is not role playing. It is the essence or Role Playing in my opinion.  That is it is the main physical developmental technique to the rule set.

My character makes their total income by grinding/hunting (never mined ever) and enjoys the hunt/grind. Of course other players may see it differently, yet if ones character is supposed to be a warrior then, it is my feeling, that it should be reflected in the character's stats.... yet perhaps my raving is getting a bit OT. 



- Nova

[Xoel]

Weltall also thinks grinding is RPing a warrior and that RPers should better play on IRC. And he's not alone... that's how it goes here.

While I don't agree with weltall on a few things, he is right in that you don't need a fancy 3D client to roleplay. Pen and Paper. Even an IRC channel would do. Add some imagination. PlaneShift is being developed as a game not just a platform for roleplay. Game. You know, the things you do for fun.

[Geoni]

Spongebob has nothing to do with this topic, so please don't try and add a fancy ending to your statement by adding something irrelevant to the game.

Now, off the topic just to feed certain people who love to get off topic: So you two (weltall and Xoel) are saying that the RP server should be completely taken away, letting the hoards of PLer zombies take over the server and lead planeshift on the way to being just another "hardly fit for RP" RP game? If so then it goes to show how much integrety this game has lost. The settings aren't even available to the players for mysterious reasons. Shutting out the RPers, which is the only art-like thing that this game has to present, not only shows how RP is dying, but it also goes to show how the setting and back-story of Planeshift is also dying.

On topic: labeling what used to be tells as whisper was one of the only recent improvements to the game that is programmed to promote RP, and now certain people in charge of the implementations want to get rid of it. That would be like taking a piece of artwork and burning it because you disagree. I roleplay a character that likes to whisper to people once in a while and that is the only time when you should not use brackets in tells. I am used to myself and other players using brackets in tells.

[Illysia]

I see no problem with a toggle. It's just an option. On the other hand RP is in fact not totally about mechanics. Grinning in a dungeon based tabletop RPG is way different than RPing in an open ended world where most people are never in dungeons at all. Grinding has it's place but it is by no means RP. I can support it, but in of itself it is not and never will be RP.

That being said, PS needs to stop trying to be a mainstream MMO( it's too far behind to ever make that work) and be the greatest of all the Online Roleplaying games. And by Roleplaying games I don't mean RPG as any old WoW clone can claim that. It needs to have RP factor more in it's basic structure and it needs to make mechanics to fit RP not have RP fit the mechanics.... that's what they do in other games that "tolerate" having a RP community. That is an embarrassing fail state for PS which used to be a shining gem in the world of actual RP games/communities. Now it's dull and buried.

Until the underlying mindset changes, stuff like this won't even be given enough consideration to find a better idea that will take care of this issue without bothering players that disagree with the measure. It's just the way things are.

[Phage]

While I don't agree with weltall on a few things, he is right in that you don't need a fancy 3D client to roleplay. Pen and Paper. Even an IRC channel would do. Add some imagination. PlaneShift is being developed as a game not just a platform for roleplay. Game. You know, the things you do for fun.

I wish I could say that it's amusing to see how Geoni turns somewhat discontent with PS. But noticing how quickly Geoni's opinion has apparently shifted..
Well, who is Xoel? Joined several months back, does some disputable arts, has no comparison to how was it when roleplaying was really blooming, I dont care. More remarkable to me is Weltall's opinion here, and it saddens me, given the citations are right. According to that, PS is nothing more than a tech-demo: Join to check out the mechanical implementations. Suggestions of whatever kind are a priori refused unless they support the finding of bugs. This is an official attitude that I wonder why would anyone would want to join, and even if it is only for wasting time hitting a button to level, say, blacksmithing.
Oh, and Xoel, if you want to impress people by your sig "Art, 'nuff said" - at least antialias that font, otherwise it does look very amateuristic. Even you, I am sure, can do better.

As for ontopic:
First and frickin foremost, for gods sake, remove that uttermost silly Gossip channel. If you guys spearhead "Use IRC for RP", then you cannot but have to remove it, because that channel is nothing but a blunt IRC. However I admit, if players communication is wished to be more prominent than character communication, leave it be (for difference between both, please consult any roleplaying guide).
And as for Telling or Whispering.. good lord, same discussion again - Years ago I was already trying to make /tell equal to /say but merely in a very limited range. Who cares? Oh, it is PS, it is for posting stuff for fun, and for being amused about things go down the road while few chosen ones wont refuse to claim "All is well!" - No wait.. Finara Pund does not say that anymore, but still "things" go down, just... way less ones - hey, thats amusing again now!lol

EDIT:
Although I never liked you in the beginning, Geoni, you became more and more sympathetic to me - pleasure to see you on our forums now! Not much to offer to you, although I hope our libraries can be of use to you during your play!

[Geoni]

Although I never liked you in the beginning, Geoni, you became more and more sympathetic to me - pleasure to see you on our forums now! Not much to offer to you, although I hope our libraries can be of use to you during your play!

Thanks, when it comes to me not being liked, I was probably an arrogant newb, and I realized I needed to overcome that. I try to stay sympathetic even though it is becoming very difficult sometimes. When it comes to joining your forums, I did it because the library is very resourceful and I hope that more players that are serious about RP come and join the forum to see the settings that were hidden from them.

That being said, PS needs to stop trying to be a mainstream MMO( it's too far behind to ever make that work) and be the greatest of all the Online Roleplaying games. And by Roleplaying games I don't mean RPG as any old WoW clone can claim that. It needs to have RP factor more in it's basic structure and it needs to make mechanics to fit RP not have RP fit the mechanics.... that's what they do in other games that "tolerate" having a RP community. That is an embarrassing fail state for PS which used to be a shining gem in the world of actual RP games/communities. Now it's dull and buried.

Until the underlying mindset changes, stuff like this won't even be given enough consideration to find a better idea that will take care of this issue without bothering players that disagree with the measure. It's just the way things are.

That is what I hope for the PS team to achieve but the mindset of the majority seems to stray the other way. Maybe with the many players quitting they will realize what has been happening because of some of the things they have changed.

@the topic: It isn't going to happen, not until some minds have been changed, or get in game enough and RP enough so that they can see what really needs to be done. I have nothing else to say.

[eldoth_terevan]

For the sake of realism, all chat functionality should be removed from the game except for whisper, say, and shout. Do that, and RP will explode on the system.

[Phage]

For the sake of realism, all chat functionality should be removed from the game except for whisper, say, and shout. Do that, and RP will explode on the system.

Define "RP".
Realism is not what PlaneShift is about. PlaneShift is a Game, it offers mechanics to mine, to fight, to blacksmith and to cook, and in the nearby future some more ventures. PlaneShift also enables you to communicate with other players to exchange your opinions on your latest watched movie, your favorite video game, your extracurricular events and even your favorite food! And while doing so, let us know about the bugs you found ingame, please!

If you want to have a truthful focus on roleplay meet your friends on an IRC channel of your choice. For further information and guidance consult Xoel by Personal Message.

[Illysia]

For the sake of realism, all chat functionality should be removed from the game except for whisper, say, and shout. Do that, and RP will explode on the system.

I can't say I totally disagree with this idea.

[novacadian]

Grinning in a dungeon based tabletop RPG is way different than RPing in an open ended world where most people are never in dungeons at all. Grinding has it's place but it is by no means RP. I can support it, but in of itself it is not and never will be RP.

Then we are calling a truck a car. My mention of the dungeon was to take things back to its simple roots. In fact the table top world that finds me as a player (as opposed to GM-ing) has more continents and cities than PS! Yet that said one still needs to kill/grind in order to advance stats. If we are still talking something different then perhaps the difficulty is that a term is being used that confuses new players. If the RP on PS is really different then call it something different like RS (Role Stories) or something so that someone, like myself, that has been involved in Role Playing since the mid-1980's will get a handle of what you are talking about.

- Nova

[Illysia]

Roleplaying traditionally and roleplaying in a MMO is slightly different I guess. One thing pretty much all RP communities in MMOs have in common is that it is, in fact, more like telling a story than just playing the role. If you use the playing a role definition, then pretty much any game you play fits. But in PS there is a persistent world that ideally players are shaping through their characters.

The characters' story is their lives which ideally involves more than just repetition, especially repetition without interaction. As I said, grinding has it's place and can serve to help RP. I had to PL cooking in the beginning so that Illy's RP and abilities matched. Once the level was sufficient to fit the story of the character, then I stopped training as it was no longer necessary and I went back to RPing. At that point I had the ability to share the cooked food I had previously only RPed. We just need to get people out of the "kill kill kill" mentality of the generic MMO and in to the "my character is a person.. not just a sword with an arm" mentality of the PS RPer.

For most people: think of your RPs from the standpoint of an author, not just a gamer (from the stand point of gaining experience and stats. ).

[novacadian]

It is my feeling that you are cutting too fine a line of what is and what is not RP. For example when RP-ing with two other players coming back from Oja to the city we hunted all the way. A long and chaotic group battle taking out a Trepor was one of my most exciting and enjoyable times on PS to date. There was comradery felt, friendships made, excitement both in game and in a story line.... oh and damn fine pps. If one does not like developing the character through game mechanics, then you have no argument here. Yet to say that when those that do so are not role playing seems incredibly judgemental to me.

- Nova

[Illysia]

Grinding... the parts between the grinding are NOT grinding...