Tell Disable

[novacadian]

Then one could say of my character's trip from Oja that each time we stopped we were Rp-ing; yet when using the mechanics of movement we were not? Or is mechanic repetition only grinding if it offers some pp reward? Continually moving from point A to B can be a grind of sorts in my estimation. Silly? Think about it and the use of tells that causes such grinding of movement. Is that a more legit RP than a hunter who ignores their tells?

You seem to be drawing an arbitrary line in the RP sand. The thing is, that you have my total respect for the subset that you consider RP. If no one is forcing you to incorporate some of my subset it would be nice to feel the same respect from those that do not. To say that developing my character is not RP seems absurd to me.

Without common respect as to what Role Playing may mean to different players the community is a splintered one; each sharing only a common background world and not the common fun of playing interactively.

- Nova

[Illysia]

No, you are jumping to conclusions and making assumption that don't even apply to what I am saying. And trust me, I have as much right as you to be slightly offended as you are putting words in my mouth. Just the mechanics alone is not character development, not in this game or any other. I acknowledged that it has its place, if you read my post, I've done it. But grinding is not in of itself the RP, it is a tool. Now if you want to jump on me because I don't make as much use of mechanics then you are the one drawing an arbitrary line in the sand. If I didn't have respect for different types, I would have left the game long ago.

[novacadian]

No attempt was made to put words in your mouth. If they were placed there on my account then allow me to offer my apologies for that. Once extracted the rest remains.

- Nova

[Illysia]

Once extracted there is nothing left.  We actually don't disagree. It's just every time I say anything involving RP and mechanics in the same sentence, people start hearing criticisms of their own RP and tune out what I am actually saying. If people weren't so quick to feel attacked people would find I'm not nearly that critical.

[Bonifarzia]

Astounding to see another thread diverge.

For the sake of realism, all chat functionality should be removed from the game except for whisper, say, and shout.

That's what basic chat window does, except for NPC speech and help tab. Everyone is free to enable it, but no one should be forced to.

Nova:
A feature request on the bug tracker could have more impact than a diffuse discussion on the wishlist boards here. Maybe you first want to open a request for a /whisper command in analogy to /shout, and be sure to specify how exactly you want this to work (syntax, targeting, range, main or a new tab, ... try to keep it clear and simple).

[eldoth_terevan]

Roleplay doesn't exist. Thats why its funny to come here and see people arguing about it. All you have is a different approach for every person who logs in, no way to moderate it, and no way to enforce any sort of structure to it. A roleplaying game has a mechanical structure that is definite. Roleplaying games were not invented yesterday and were definitely NOT invented starting with PlaneShift.

My statement was that if you remove all chat functionality, roleplay will explode on the system. And at least one posted after me, who wanted to lecture me on their opinions. But my point is that if you are serious about roleplay, remove the excuses for not roleplaying, i.e. all the gratuitous chat functionality; make the characters interact as characters. As long as people can instant message each other from afar you are reducing chances of "roleplay" dramatically across all character interactions on the system.

But the next argument that should have come up was coordinating events and scenarios (not informing me of your favorite movies, like I give a damn) and how hard that would be without the chat functions. The chat that has been added to the game has been added for a reason. Just like the game mechanics. And it was expanded to the current level of chat functions for practical reasons based on what I just mentioned. So I really doubt they are going to remove it.

But my point still stands... if you want RP, remove all chat functionality that represents a magical messaging service between the characters. RP will EXPLODE on the system if this is done. And I mean everything except whisper, say and shout. RP started dying with guild chat, and now that we have a gossip channel, roleplay is dead. Forget that you can't define roleplay; as far as it goes within the PS world, its whatever the players say it is because the devs have not yet added many functions to support it.

[RlyDontKnow]

Off topic? Yeah, who cares...

many care - stop dragging off things completely, but instead move totally unrelated things in a new topic if you want to discuss them

but to replay a bit:

Every time somebody suggests that they use mechanics less than it takes to max chars (that's months of grinding) s/he is accused of not using mechanics at all. Every single time the same pattern is repeated. Truth is all those people have used and keep using mechanics, but in the eyes of devote grinders this is not enough. I guess it's the same the other way around, grinders do not RP enough for those people.

that fight is more on the forum than anything else - I never had issues with that ingame myself nor did those I played with

...Traveling from Oja to Hydlaa while hunting with a party is NOT grinding. Now try to ONLY earn your money/PP through this kind of excursions. If you manage to do that and your hair didn't turn white when done, you will probably be the first one to manage. Too bad in PS this takes you a lifetime.

you'd expect to become a master by just guarding a traveller from time to time? I certainly doubt that, you *do* have to train from time to time, too.
those who become masters usually train several hours a game for years...
now in PS: if you just train a little bit from time to time (make it an hour every 3rd day or whatever), you can easily become quite good within a reasonable amount of time as hunter/mercenary/whatever.

PS is not a D&D based game, and it's not a pen&paper either. In most D&D based video-games I played you can't go further than level 25ish, stats barely increase through the whole game (you mostly do with the ones from character creation) and you don't have to go out to kill mobs for the sake of killing mobs, ever. You progress as you do quests, because mobs are in the way. This is close to your hunting trips, and even if you have to kill a lot of them, I don't see it as grinding since there's a ultimate reason to do that other than raising stats.

after all, not exactly true. Drakensang is a great example of a single-player game that uses pure pen&paper rules, however I still had to grind from time to time to be able to advance further as it was impossible to advance in the quests without the training. same goes for other games of this kind which have completely different rules (e.g. the ones of the elder scrolls series).

On top of that, training in PS is terribly boring (proof is the same PLers call it "hard work" lol), while we are at copying WoW and other MMOs at least we should start making training as "fun" as in those games.
The issue is in the game's concept of character development, not in the players wanting to have the skills/stats they feel their char should have.

on that one: I have to agree - training isn't the way it should be.
however it's being worked on and there have been quite some good suggestions so far that can help making it more interesting.

now to the actual topic:
what's the issue of putting OOC requests in brackets and actually putting a nice message in if it's an IC one? (e.g. I used to send my Yulbar to deliver messages over longer distance while only half the message actually reached the target as the other half was unreadable because the little Yulbar went off-track (again - *cough*) and had fun in the mud or ran through the river)

as for the request for an explicit whisper tab: I doubt it'll be actually useful. the range would have to be 2m max which is clearly nothing ingame. also others can still hear whispers, why shouldn't they be able ingame?
now one could think of an extra chat command (/whisper message) that's only heard in such a small range which would make more sense to be honest and would be more consistent with the other commands for doing emotes, shout, etc.
but I'm not sure how much that'd fit into what you actually had in mind...

[Xoel]

The settings aren't even available to the players for mysterious reasons.

I tell you once, I tell you a million times, the settings aren't available because they're 1) Not there and 2) what is there hasn't had inconsistencies fixed.

Oh, and there's a huge hole in internal docs where UtM had been making docs. Because none of them can be used with his revelation that he never signed the licence. Funny how some people stick to a view that supports their negative views though.

Really, your argument bores me. If you don't like the way a commercial game is, you certainly don't whinge that they don't support your style of play. You just don't waste time and effort on that game or its community. And yet, in PlaneShift, made entirely by a volunteer, everyone feels the need to troll whenever something they don't like is said, and turn every thread into a whinge about the game not being perfect for your perfectionist RP. Get a life, 'nuff said.

[novacadian]

Nova:
A feature request on the bug tracker could have more impact than a diffuse discussion on the wishlist boards here. Maybe you first want to open a request for a /whisper command in analogy to /shout, and be sure to specify how exactly you want this to work (syntax, targeting, range, main or a new tab, ... try to keep it clear and simple).

Good point Bonifarzia. For the moment using the /away command seems to be doing the job for me at least. Each login the following is placed in the /away command...

"For better game immersion tells are being ignored unless used as whispers initiated in Main"

This does not change the fact of walking up to someone my character knows and greeting them and feeling great pauses in the ensuing conversation. One can almost see the tells flying by and distraction from the current RP on their side.

However even with a toggle installed that is not, likely, to change for all characters one meets. 

- Nova

[Draklar]

you'd expect to become a master by just guarding a traveller from time to time? I certainly doubt that, you *do* have to train from time to time, too.
those who become masters usually train several hours a game for years...

Of course, you have to train. People train with dummies, not annihilating every living being in sight.

I concur.
In addition to what Pepito already said, when walking into a real confrontation, the last thing you'll be thinking about is using those neat new techniques some guy taught you back there. In real confrontation you are just too busy maintaining your focus and will to burden yourself with techniques you haven't mastered yet.

As to training for several hours a day for years... I just don't buy this. I've had runs of intensive physical exercises about 3 hours a day for about 2 months. Even with proper nutrition and theoretical knowledge about exercising, after such runs my mind and my body were just too exhausted to continue the workout.
Now considering that most people get discouraged after a few days of 1 hour per day exercises and that several ages ago people didn't quite possess profound knowledge about proper exercising, I don't really think anyone had the patience and capabilities of maintaining such an intensive physical workout for a number of years.

In most cases training 1 hour per day, 5 days a week with some breaks for several years is really enough to become superb at what you do. All you need is a good teacher. I've been doing fencing, guitar-playing and street-dancing. In all these activities finding proper learning techniques is enough to progress at incredibly fast pace. And it most certainly doesn't look anything like mindless grinding.
If you do grinding exercises, I really doubt training several hours a day will even get you anywhere. I know people who made hardly any progress over several years because of favouring such approach.

[Sarva]

I've heard it said often that to become an expert in something you need 10,000 of practice in that skill/field or a variation of that says 10 years or 10,000 hours of deliberate practice

[Geoni]

Get a life, 'nuff said.

Xoel get a premeditated thought process that works before you say things, 'nuff said.

Somebody lock this damn thread already. It's full of personal attacks and off topic arguments.

[Overtherainbow]

I think you're stupid Geoni, and you smell like cow manure.

[Geoni]

I think you're stupid Geoni, and you smell like cow manure.

What's wrong with the lovely smell of pastures, hater?   

I would expect better from you.

[Sarras Volcae]

I've heard it said often that to become an expert in something you need 10,000 of practice in that skill/field or a variation of that says 10 years or 10,000 hours of deliberate practice

it's a lie

of course, the devs of a free online game know jack shatner about exercise. it's even been proven that training muscles only really works if you rarely (meaning a couple times a week) weight train. if you know nothing about real life, don't make a realistic game. you'll get it all wrong.

OH SNAP