Prison

[beza1e1]

I lag, I lag ... oh thats the prison?

I think the sentences must be pretty long to take an effect. Not playing PS for some hours is not that hard. I just put it in the background and do something useful

[killercow]

KC, the entire PK discussion is being fought all over this board, plz keep it in the threads that were meant for it...

oooh im sorry axion.....can u forgiv me?

Yeah i understand i should keep it in the appropriate threads. I just thought it was appropriate enough for a responce to ur post. But anyway...

beza1e1->
1) I think a fight to the death would be cool but you should get a little knife or something to fight with or you should be able to throw the rocks around u at the big beast about to trample you to pieces.
2) You would be surprised, some people manage to spend their lives on computers playin games such as planeshift and then have no clue what to do when their stuck sittin in a prison to rot for the next three weeks.    Quite disturbing actually.

hook-> well um...that wouldn\'t be a prison that would be wasting time (and bandwidth   ) But I guess it makes effective use of \'wasting their time for their crime\'.

[hook]

well another way would be to forbid the \"emprisoned\" player to join in for some days/weeks ...depending on the crime

[beza1e1]

One problem i see: Who can sentence the bad boys?
A player judicator? So a player has the power to kick you out of the game for some weeks?!?
On the other hand, i\'d like to see the player regulate their crime on their own.

[Monkeys eat peanuts]

k here\'s some of my thougths on punishment and jailbreaks:

Jail is also a way of crime prevention(since they cant do anything while in jail) and an hour is too short no matter what the crime is, I think you penalties should start at a day at least (during this time when you log in you\'ll find yourself in a prison(small area no way out from the inside).  You don\'t have to actually be logged in an entire day or log in at all you just wont be able to go outside your prison or to improve your skills for a day.
Besides if you force people to log in they\'ll just be afk for an hour and you would disadvantage people using a dial up connection (since they would have to pay for afk\'ing)

Also with theft I think the time you are doing should depend on the value of the thing you stole or attempted to. I would risk being in jail one day for an uber impaler sword but I wouldn\'t for a piece of food.

Something like this:

Theft of small item (apple or whatever) 1 day
Theft of mediocre item (eg. an average sword) 1 week
Theft of good item (a good sword/a ring) 2 weeks
Theft of a rare item (uber sword or whatever) 4 weeks


Murder(as far as this will be possible)  2 weeks
Murder of important person (as far as this will be possible) 3 weeks
Mass Murder(more than 3?)/killing a gaurd 6 weeks

These penalties might seem pretty grave but this will actually enhance evil gameplay, remember that good thieves do not get caught and that they should slowly advance in skills, in the beginning they will go to jail a day or so for practising their skills but a good thief knows what he can do without getting caught and what he can\'t. And if he does fail he will surely be more carefull next time. And an even better thief will know how to run from the gaurds(but in that case lose the ability to return to town)
Murderers in this case won\'t be able to live in towns because the gaurds will throw em in the slammer at sight and if you allow players that kill murderers to hand em over to the gaurds evil persons will have to group together in societies outside of the towns to keep themselves safe from bounty hunters(and since they wont be able to go to town they lose the ability to put their items in a storage or a bank which would make it worthwhile to loot a camp of murderers).

To even further enhance \'evil\' guilds jailbreaks should be possible but only from the outside so a thief can sneak in and try to steal the keys while a group of fighters can try to fight their way to the cell (but the liberators would be listed as criminals as well when seen and ones that are killed by the gaurds in the proces would go to jail themselves (2 weeks of jail? 6 if you actually killed a gaurd)) and there would be different levels of difficulty for jailbreaks (apple thieves would be put in the easiest and mass murderers would be nearly impossible to free)

hehe sorry lol kinda got carried away...I\'ll stop now

[beza1e1]

Yeah this nearly reflects my idea. Unless i wouldn\'t predefine the time. It could differ from city to city ... and if there is an evel city, there would be other penalties. (being a good paladin -> 6 weeks)

Jailbreaks are cool, but a thief who steals the key should not automatically marked as criminal, because nobody would know it was him.

[hook]

Originally posted by beza1e1
Yeah this nearly reflects my idea. Unless i wouldn\'t predefine the time. It could differ from city to city ... and if there is an evel city, there would be other penalties. (being a good paladin -> 6 weeks)

Jailbreaks are cool, but a thief who steals the key should not automatically marked as criminal, because nobody would know it was him.

plus, if you break a rule in a pirate-like city, you could just get plainly killed ...each crime would be persecuted differently in another city ...maybe if we make even a bounty system (was discussed before i think), or that the gods (=devs) could punish anyone, even if he wasn\'t chased in any city

[Axioma]

I really like the way monkeys eat peanuts talks about thiefs. This is about the most realistic system of learning thief skills there is. Not only does your character become more skilled, the real person behind the character learns what he can let his/her character do and can\'t. This is awesome. Great thinking monkey !

Also like the idea of jailbreaks, and the mass murderer camps. (But wouldn\'t they start killing each other ? ^_^)

[Monkeys eat peanuts]

As for the evil camps they aren\'t actually city\'s I was thinking more of \'evil\' players finding a remote place to hide at where they could live in relative safety with indeed no real law system, so yes everyone could kill everyone for just looking at them the wrong way but evil players will eventually find out they are stronger when united and thus groups will form which agree to leave the members alone and stick up for each other and if we\'re lucky to have smart villains a black market might even pop up

and beza1e1 I do not believe it will be a good idea to give these camp\'s jails, if you are indeed a good paladin it would suck if you accidently walked into an evil camp and lost the ability to play for 6 weeks when you tried so hard to be the rolemodel of all that is good and fluffy. Besides in the old days they would have probably killed this guy to show off their power and scare people into staying clear of their camp instead of prisoning him and lure a party of his paladin friends to their camp (since these paladins can turn them in when they kill them)

[beza1e1]

It is the choice of the evil players how to sentence the criminal (paladin), if they decide to imprison him (and get some money for him). Let them do. If they decide ti kill him. Let them do. That\'s life (at least a virtual one).
<--snip-->
This leads to another topic, they could enslave him! But the victim would probably just create a new character or kill himself, instead of working for nothing.
<--snap-->
Your argumentation could be read from he other side as well:

if you are indeed a bad death knight it would suck if you accidently walked into an good camp and lost the ability to play for 6 weeks when you tried so hard to be the rolemodel of all that is evil and dangerous. Besides in the old days they would have probably killed this guy to show off their power and scare bandits into staying clear of their camp instead of prisoning him and lure a party of his death knight brothers to their camp (since these death knights can turn them in when they kill them)

Why should the evil players not get a city as well as the good ones? In reality there is no black and white, just gray. If a city/mayor/council decides, that paladins are criminals and they should be imprisoned? Should the gods (=devs) just take the city status away, so loose the power to imprison him? Why should evil player have no chance to get mayor and live the city of their evil dreams?
Think about the Star Wars Story. The evil Empire evolved from the good Republic. This was going step by step, so noone could fight it until it was too late. The same with Hitler and the Third Empire. It is a highly Ethical question wether a city is evil or good, so just let it be a city.

As long as everything is within the role play you should not treat the evil ones worse then the good ones. Equilibrium is important.

[Monkeys eat peanuts]

Well that is true but it is the developpers task in this case to make an enjoyable game, and to balance out good and evil in such a way that both sides can enjoy the game and it\'s true there is no black or white there is society, and it\'s society that shifts the balance because you\'ll be suprised how many \'black\' or \'dark grey\' persons live in white city\'s acting good because they don\'t want any trouble(and thieves aren\'t supposed to get caught so they can just as well live in \'white\' cities).

And since you are more or less good by nature or at least in between becoming evil is a choice you make (with the risk of being imprisoned) if you send both parties to prison then people will not have a choice whatever they do they can be imprisoned and then it won\'t be their fault they ended up in prison but it would be the game\'s fault and they\'ll be like \"Screw this game it sux balls. If I can\'t *insert something nasty here* play for weeks I\'ll find a freaking other game\"

Also a villain will be much harder to play but most likely a lot more fun and you will enjoy much more fame when you are one of the 15 serious villains in the game than when you are one of the 150 serious villains in the world. I play a game where PvP has gone rampant simply because there is no decent penalty for killing and believe me it gets annoying real fast.

Also the mods have repeatedly stated that they do not want PvP and no thievery (unless it can be applied properly) because this will not draw roleplaying people to the game but hack and slash people. Remember that its not real life, it\'s roleplaying which is escape from real life...

[beza1e1]

Right, Monkey, i thought a lot about this realistic game vs escape from reality. This is probably the most challenging thing in the whole design point.

I\'m not sure, wether the good-evil balance should be dictated by the gods or if it should evolve from the players. I never played a MMORPG seriously and over a longer period. Perhaps there are just too many levelers, who want attention through their high skills/levels and too few real role players.

[hook]

ok ok ...just calm down a bit now ...slavery?!? ...evil players?!?

[logan_dugenoux]

in morrowind if you do something bad,
1-you pay for your stealing, or your medering
2-you go to jail and the you loose abilities because you spend too much time inactive.

point 1 is ok.
for a real-time game, i think 1-2 days of prison is ok, and you loose some abilities (or at least experience points).

[paxx]

Prison if implemented will be not only for a while online, but also requiring your attention. In essence?remedial labor for your character. Escape?no. makes the prison stupid, jail break possibly.

The goal of prison is to deter certain actions, as a deterrent, in this game it should be time. If it was offline time, then I log on with another character and play, if it is online and not needed, I would log on and leave the character staring at the wall and go to sleep.

Reasons for prison will be based on things you have not really thought about, my vision is more for guild wars?.ah you got caught in our guild fort trying to sabotage our defenses?you must repair the damage your group has done. 30 min of stupid clicking.

 Not in newbie PKing cause there will be no newbie PKing.

Now what would really suck is if a master thief gets caught in a place he is well known for trying to steal the equivalent of the crown jewels?100 hours of stupid clicking for you :-)

Just an idea, but it is being thought about.

At issue is who sets the prison term and what is ?balanced? if I am an evil warlord and I catch 5 goodie paladins trying to defeat me?and choose 200 hours of stupid clicking?those players might just forget those characters and delete them. Or different groups might get into a max sentence frenzy just to make sure no one comes against them.

But 5 min ? 1 hour might be ok until the devs decide this character needs more time?bwahaha.

But there are many options and they will be reviewed?ransoms is medieval enough?as long as it is money or somesuch. I just don?t want to see it abused and as such it is necessary to figure out.

It could be set upon guild war stance?all who are captured will be imprisoned for 5 min ? 2 hours, and it is the same for both/all sides.

Dependant on the rancor on both sides it might make it interesting?2 hours it is?guild who forfeits gives up 100000 tira.

Or it can be light hearted fun, Paladins Vs. Evils 5 min imprisonment forfeit loose guild flag for 3 days.  

Just some thoughts.