A solution we all want.

[RlyDontKnow]

not that true, my little newcomer I'm taking care of just got 300PP from killing a monster with low stats (weapon and armor <10, stats ~100), it's more about being guided properly

[sashia_mennar]

Phew.
Bind stats training to stamina exhaustion. Mental for mental stats and so on. The more often one depletes and regains one's stamina, the more practice points in any of the three theory-trained relevant stats one gets. Gaining practice points in Charisma while mining ore would be exactly as believable as persuading more ore to come out with one's charisma, and that's what we have now.

Ligh, two skills can be trained at the same time. Blacksmith and weapon crafting, for example.

[RlyDontKnow]

Gaining practice points in Charisma while mining ore would be exactly as believable as persuading more ore to come out with one's charisma, and that's what we have now.

where did you get that from? your mental stats don't influence your mining odds at all and the too fast mental stamina depleting during mining is fixed

[LigH]

Currently stats don't need practicing. Not realistic, but the way PlaneShift always worked - at least since I started playing (v 0.3.012).

The depletion of the physical or mental stamina is not related to their training, it is only a limit of activities.


Physical stamina are surely more related to endurance and probably strength, but less to agility. Health points are related to the same stats but have a different equation.

Mental stamina are surely more related to will and possibly intelligence, but less to charisma. Mana points are related to the same stats but have a different equation.


The more physical stamina you got by buying related physical stats training, the longer you can be physically active without exhausting. (With the almost paradox result that a cozy walk is even recreating - from a certain level set of physical stats on you can walk eternally.)

The more mental stamina you got by buying related mental stats training, the longer you can be mentally active without -- don't know; some developer told me that "getting bored" would not be the perfect explanation, but I can't imagine of any better. Possibly the "getting bored" idea was based just on that fixed "too fast draining while mining", although mining doesn't really require mental activities - in contrast to casting spells.

[sashia_mennar]

Gaining practice points in Charisma while mining ore would be exactly as believable as persuading more ore to come out with one's charisma, and that's what we have now.

where did you get that from? your mental stats don't influence your mining odds at all and the too fast mental stamina depleting during mining is fixed

Rly, it's not the first time I have that eerie feeling of 'normal players' and devs&testers playing 2 completely different Planeshifts.

Less mental stamina -> harder and slower to dig (more rest periods) -> less ore.

And please, guys, don't even try to persuade me one can dig normally with charisma under 100. You see, I tried that.

Calling mental stamina depletion when mining 'fixed' exactly when we have a corresponding bug rampant (mine doesn't drain at all, just quivers a bit) is good for a good laugh. Actually, a very pleasant bug. Fix the mugs instead, please? 

Stats must be trained, not bought, if making a believable and consistent world is still the goal.

[RlyDontKnow]

the mental stamina depleting during mining was a bug that was fixed last week.
there was a typo in a formula, so it should be perfectly possible to mine without any notable mental stats now (which does work - at least on ezpc I already tried it and it works as expected now). not sure whether zeroping was already restarted since the fix, if not - just be a bit more patient

[Draklar]

Just a tiny note from me.

Increasing strength should actually decrease your overall stamina. Stronger people usually get tired faster because body tissue (muscles in particular) requires a lot of oxygen to work properly.

[LigH]

"Exaggerating realism"? - It is a game.

[Draklar]

True enough.

But I believe it was said even in this thread that Planeshift needs more balance. PS doesn't use the class system, because apparently confining characters in pre-defined boxes isn't realistic. But if you want realistic, then be realistic. Realistically a beefed up character won't jump around like a ballerina and a seasoned warrior will no longer be as flexible as a rookie.
If you ignore that, the system will only promote Mary Sue characters.
And if you don't want realism, then go for class system - it is simpler, allows more advanced gameplay options and is easier to balance.

"Let's be realistic only when it is convenient" is a funny option in my opinion.

[LigH]

So you believe that there should be rather a "maximum sum of stats" (simplified) than maximum individual stats, so each character needs to decide which stats are more important?

Probably not a bad concept. Just ... "we always did it so", you know?

[Bonifarzia]

A trade-off between stats or skills does not necessarily require rigid limits, it can also be introduced by antagonistic effects, LigH. And is that not exactly what Draklar implied, physical stamina rates as a trade-off between endurance and strength? Still, anything related to limitations and practice for stat development makes me think of this concept.

Back on topic and the observation that some mobs deal tremendous amounts of damage, notice that trainable (medium and light) armor ranks are still restrictive and that full sets of crafted armor may have a much bigger impact than additional health from body development. Let us just see how things will evolve.

[Vakachehk]

Ok I may of only read the first few posts, but this is soooo stupid! Stop with having so many things you level in, How about just making one way and that is it. Instead of having Body Development, Strength, Agility, Endurance, Will to increase your health, how about just having 1 or 2 that does them all? its confusing and stupid.
I was thinking about making up a post to redo the whole stats, changing Combat and some jobs. Jobs having Blade Making (Everything with a blade e.g Axe, Swords, Daggers) and Weapon Making (Maces, Morning Stars, and Polearm) , Armor Making (does Chain Mail and Plate armor, Shields, Helms) Then also having Blade, Heavy Weapons, Archery/Range, Heavy Armor, Medium Armor, and Light Armor, no Shield Handling that will come under the type of shields (Like with Helms) armor it is.

[Sangwa]

I don't agree with the jobs thing, but I do agree with the simplification of the stats. Blade smithing sounds better than having to learn all those different types of things and endurance should contain body development. These 1000 stats with 1000 ranks are ridiculous and demotivate many good, interesting, beautiful people from actually giving grinding a try.
But fortunately, my wise friend, we're not calling the shots... What a mess that would be: there are some people with good ideas out there, but 80% is just pure crap.

And Ligh when I was referring to the size of the Maulber I was just trying to say that there should be monsters that can't be killed by any single adventurer. Let some big, mean looking monsters actually be big and mean. Else the worst monsters will be the players themselves. And that sounds ugly.

Also Draklar wasn't asking for any exaggerated realism... Exaggerated in this context means it's just not possible to do, or that it will decrease fun or some other objective of the game. I don't think incoherence is an aspect of this game and Draklar's suggestion would simply decrease it in order to give this game more realism and balance. It may be hard to accomplish system-wise though and that'd be a good excuse not to consider it a priority.

You're always dropping excuses everywhere I look Ligh... Stop resisting and join us. It's better to be on the side that points the finger. We have lemons to give. What do the devs give you?

[kaerli2]

...
And Ligh when I was referring to the size of the Maulber I was just trying to say that there should be monsters that can't be killed by any single adventurer. Let some big, mean looking monsters actually be big and mean. Else the worst monsters will be the players themselves. And that sounds ugly.
...

Not in a toe-to-toe engagement, that is, Sangwa.  It's certainly possible to beat one singlehandedly though...hint: think standoff and tactics.



Hint 2: this is actually rather similar to an infantryman IRL engaging a tank.

[LigH]

Sangwa ... I always expected you to be intelligent enough to discover irony, parody, satire etc. - And a quote of Yoda from Star Wars.

Anyway - I already use to raise fingers, sometimes to point, sometimes to get attention. (Or to mention that my "H" is upper case). I am not sure how lemons should help me there. Life is already enough lemon. In my opinion, it is not yet urgent to throw myself out of any window, there is plenty time for that.