Author Topic: ammend the cheating rules to allow Attended macros (autohotkeys) they arent bots  (Read 466 times)

mikeloeven

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Since the beginning of plane shift people have been saddled with a clunky and inefficient user interface that requires allot of mouse movement and keystrokes resulting in far more abuse to your hands than should be necessary. The main reason people cannot do anything about it is an archaic rule that lumps bots and attended macroing into the same category under hacking/cheating.
There are primary differences between the two systems and while an autonomous bot does indeed fall under the definition of cheating. I do not believe that a user created macro should be criminalized in the same manner.
For starters let’s define the two different items in question as well as an excerpt from the ps rules on cheating.
The plane shift rules on cheating can be found here please read them prior to reading the rest of this post
http://www.planeshift.it/cheating.html

A bot client also known as botting is a complex program that is designed to perform one or more tasks with 0 user input. and more often than not utalizes a non authorized client to directly communicate with the server. A bot client is essentially a personal npc server that allows you to program your player character and walk away from the computer while it tirelessly spends the rest of the night mining fishing farming xp or generally advancing your level without having to play the game.
A bot client falls under the category of “tools that the game designer didn't create for him, basically spoiling the original creation of the designers.”
A bot client breaks realism because the character in question will act similarly to an npc monster with jerky movement’s unrealistic actions. Complete inability to communicate with anyone or anything.
A bot client breaks balance because it advances your character to a skill level that you did not take the time and effort to reach
BOTS ARE CHEATS

There may be several definitions of a macro but the one I am referring to consists of a simple input program that sits between the keyboard driver and the operating system and allows a single key to trigger a complex series of mouse paths clicks and keystrokes.
Macros are used for a process called attended macroing. This involves a player who is actively engaged in the game but who through use of the program has taken a long tedious process of clicking and keystrokes and turned them into a single button.
 
For example, taking ore out of a furnace. Say you have 8 stacks of ore you wish to make into a stock without a macro you could easily end up with carpel tunnel syndrome because to move each stack you have to first open your inventory one by one drag the stacks while holding down the stack key. After that you than have to open the stock casting and drag the stacks in one by one yet again. Once your finished you may have even send the stocks back to the furnace for further purification.  

Now because a macro program directly inputs the mouse movements and keystrokes it in no way alters the game or effects the game play its self. So a macro does not fall under the category of a tool that destroys the creation of the developers. If anything it improves the gaming experience by fixing flaws in the ui that result in an overly complicated task and inordinate amount of clicking.

Now back to the ore smelting example. A macro is not a bot and cannot do everything for you. But you can program the macro to click on each square while holding the control key and when you press your hotkey trigger the mouse will move from slot to slot transferring the items automatically.

Due to limitations in the engine of the game and the fact that it is direct input the process will take more or less the same time as it takes a human to perform the action.

In essence attended macroing is balanced because you advance at roughly the same rate as normal while you yourself are actually taking part in the leveling process and are using your mind and skills to guide the program to your ultimate goal.

Once the macro runs its course control of the computer is returned to the user who will then proceed to his next step. Macros are dumb scripts they cannot execute themselves without user input and they cannot handle environmental variables such as say window or npc moved. The script would start clicking in the middle of the screen and do absolutely nothing without the human readjusting the window.

This also makes the macro balanced because it forces the human to stay in the seat and interact with the game. It also keeps realism intact because your character will continue to walk and act with human input and aside from the few macro assisted tasks (durring which you would be standing still anyway) you will be more than capable of staying in character and replying to any question asked.

So the only thing a macro does is cut down on the sheer number of mouse clicks. Now I am sure some brilliant person out there could find some way to modify a macro program to work autonomously but in doing so he would have turned the system into a bot anyway.

But as stated a properly assembled keyboard macro does not give players any sort of advantage and additionally allows people with physical injuries or disabilities to play the game where they formerly could not. In all macroing in my opinion does not classify as cheating and should be exempted from the list at least until the crafting system is fixed to the point where the ui is more intuitive and easier to navigate.

aside from all of my arguments planeshift actually has a macro program built into it in the form of the programable shortcuts. however since the input from these macros is limited to the console it is of little use for crafting or other tasks that require constant babysitting.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 05:12:42 pm by mikeloeven »

RlyDontKnow

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Now because a macro program directly inputs the mouse movements and keystrokes it in no way alters the game or effects the game play its self. So a macro does not fall under the category of a tool that destroys the creation of the developers. If anything it improves the gaming experience by fixing flaws in the ui that result in an overly complicated task and inordinate amount of clicking.
a pixel bot does input movments and key presses directly, too, does that make it no cheating?

Now back to the ore smelting example. A macro is not a bot and cannot do everything for you. But you can program the macro to click on each square while holding the control key and when you press your hotkey trigger the mouse will move from slot to slot transferring the items automatically.

Due to limitations in the engine of the game and the fact that it is direct input the process will take more or less the same time as it takes a human to perform the action.

In essence attended macroing is balanced because you advance at roughly the same rate as normal while you yourself are actually taking part in the leveling process and are using your mind and skills to guide the program to your ultimate goal.
dunno where you take that engine limitation from, given your box is fast enough you can put in aat least a few houndred inputs per second without serious issues

also the macro makes you go faster, it helps you do things a whole lot faster than you'd do it by hand
also you can easily put it into a loop which automates things completely

also the shortcuts aren't macros by your means. they have serious (intended) limitations, most notably the lack of timers and loops.

so imo: plain no. macros via external programs are cheating and are considered as such in pretty much any game I know, I don't see a reason why PlaneShift should be an exception.
if you don't like crafting, don't use it till it gets more comfortable - easy as that.

mikeloeven

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not sure what macro your talking about but the one i am familiar with simlply captures and replays a mouse path so the macro goes at the same rate as you moved the mouse durring the capture

besides if you do use a cordinant based macro than although the items physically move a bit faster than you still have to deal with the forge and furnace timers as well as any crafting timers involved. so the speed increase is still minimal.


and alot of games do not actually ban macros but they all have a clause in the eula stating that when confronted by a gm or moderator a character must respond in a timley manner or be banned for botting
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 09:14:34 pm by mikeloeven »

novacadian

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Pinayet says, "Greetings citizen", and then sticks out his right hand palm up.

Pinayet looks at the upturned palm as if it were some forgotten gesture

Pinayet mutters to himself, "... ah, yes that was it."

Pinayet extends his upturned hand further towards the new arrival bellowing, "Papers!"

Geoni

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You trollin' Nova!  :lol:


-sig by sarras

weltall

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you don't need a macro to split a stack in a furnace in 1s you just need to know the "take one from stack" button

Durgrem

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First, thanks for the detailed and reasoned post. My personal opinion:

A bot client also known as botting is a complex program that is designed to perform one or more tasks with 0 user input. and more often than not utalizes a non authorized client to directly communicate with the server.
[...]
Now because a macro program directly inputs the mouse movements and keystrokes it in no way alters the game or effects the game play its self. So a macro does not fall under the category of a tool that destroys the creation of the developers.

If I read your post right, is a keyboard macro valid, because it doesn't alter the program in order to perform tasks. The same time would a hacked client, that does the same task, be illegal.
I don't think it is important how you change the gaming experience, it is important that you do.

A bot client breaks balance because it advances your character to a skill level that you did not take the time and effort to reach
BOTS ARE CHEATS
[...]
This involves a player who is actively engaged in the game but who through use of the program has taken a long tedious process of clicking and keystrokes and turned them into a single button.
[...]
So the only thing a macro does is cut down on the sheer number of mouse clicks.

Again, I don't see a big difference. The thing you want to achieve is using an automated process to work around drawbacks of the current ui and make the game easier just for yourself. This is something that gives you an advantage over others in a multiplayer game.

But as stated a properly assembled keyboard macro does not give players any sort of advantage

Why do you create a script if it has no advantage? It of course gives an advantage, the question is rather how big it is compared to no script on the one side and more complex scripts and bots on the other side.

With that I see two big problems with the request. First, the problem with cheating is not how you do it, the problem is what is done to get the desired advantage. Second, the scripting gives you an advantage over others.

Edit: Fixed wording

mikeloeven

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you don't need a macro to split a stack in a furnace in 1s you just need to know the "take one from stack" button

you kinda missed the point. not talking about splitting stacks i am talking aboout moving alot of stacks from inventory to furnace and back again. and yes a hotkey will give a advanged but it is primarially a physical advantage designed to take strain off of your body allowing you to play longer. you still put roughly the same time into the game as normal and get simillar results. in the grand scheme of things i am willing to be there are alot of people who do use such a thing but simply do so from the confines of their closet because they dont feel like speaking up. and if it is removed from the cheeting list it wil cease to be an advantage over others becaue you are allowing everyone to use them.