Poll

Which aspect of the game do you feel needs the most attention?

Graphics (models, textures, animation etc.)
Sound / Music
Settings (Storyline, quests etc.)
Mechanics (Training, Crafting, Combat etc.)
World exansion (maps, items etc.)
Other

Author Topic: PS SkunkWorks Project 01  (Read 12458 times)

Candy

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2010, 04:28:10 am »
I'll follow suite with the whole voting-what-Aiwendil-said thing
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Overtherainbow

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2010, 06:43:32 am »
Hey what is the "internet".

ncfbn

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2010, 06:45:56 am »
Hey what is the "internet".

No idea....ask Google.

Sarras Volcae

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2010, 11:56:39 pm »
i voted for graphics, but i now believe mechanics is more important.  planeshift does need character models for each character, though.

Verrliit

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2010, 07:19:30 pm »
I come in, and read the forums once in a long while.
I don't believe that I have posted in over a year, perhaps two...

But for that vanishing chance, that a miracle may happen, I will speak again, of why I loved Planeshift so much, and for years made it my home.

And to answer the question of this topic, I will repeat what I have always felt was in the greatest need of change.


When I came to PS, almost nothing worked.
Kill rats, loot rats, sell parts, buy things and training, repeat...

And yet, that time, before most areas of the map were made, was the golden age, for me.

We, the players, were players in a theatrical sense.
We created our stories, and we lived them, changing course as we encountered the stories of others, colliding, rebounding, orbiting, and inspiring each other.

There is no content, no art, no mechanic, no code that can hope to equal the experience of players involved so deeply with each other.

I know, that this is off track for many.
There may be some, in fact, for whom this is the last thing they want to hear.

But it is, I believe, the truth.


No matter what you build, no matter how much advertising you do, none of that matters in the slightest, if no one stays to play it.

And if no one wants to live there, all your work was for nothing.


This is what mainstream (zero RP) free gaming looks like, these days:  http://vindictus.nexon.net/

As you can see, the gap between PS content and the rest of the world, is widening.

PS cannot possibly compete, retain players and attract new players, on the strength of art or design, coding or mechanics.
Even normalizing the licensing, recruiting college students in gaming courses en masse, actually using player contributions, et cetera, might not be enough.


There was something that genuinely made PS special, though.

Our community of players, telling stories to each other...

People who were, absolutely, worth years of my life.


For me at least, the most most important change there could possibly be, has been the most difficult...

I spent years posting about it, and though I expect everyone to ignore the silly RP person, once again, I cannot resist another try, even so.

For there are still some names I know in here, and I wish for them the best there may be.


I propose, as guiding thought and principle:

To make Planeshift a place where storytellers want to live.



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Illysia

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2010, 08:32:29 pm »
I propose, as guiding thought and principle:
To make Planeshift a place where storytellers want to live.

A nice thought, but it is easier to program mechanics and thus the reason why PS is the way it is. It really is a nice sentiment though, but after battling for years to try and keep that mentality going I don't think it will happen. RP does not necessitate a good story or the desire to form one.

However, I do believe that the skunkworks project at least has the chance to maybe iron out more of the mechanics issues.

By the way, weren't you the fenki with the sigil (sp?)... the amulet thingy on her followers?

neko kyouran

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2010, 08:55:30 pm »
nice to see you haven't changed in the last 6 years Verr.

 

LigH

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2010, 09:57:23 pm »
:o -- Verrliit! :flowers:

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Talad

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2010, 03:46:32 pm »
Seems to me the current blog site is not flexible enough, as I mentioned previously there is a need of a site where everyone in the team can edit, not only the team lead. Also I want to provide some guidance on the topics which can be of interest for the skunkworks team.

I've created this page on the pswiki which I think it's a good container of your work. Also I listed some items which I think can be improved through the player's feedback and participation.

Feel free to change/expand that page as you think it's needed.



Getoran

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2010, 10:14:11 pm »
  • get rid of the ABC license or at least

This sounds like a very good idea. It would allow PS to make use of all the CC repositories out there. Of course others would be able to use PS arts as well but is this really that bad? Isn't sharing the spirit of open source? From reading the PS license page it seems that the main fear was that someone would fork the project. At the current point it seems highly unlikely that the few developers left will also split up and start their own PS project. Forking a project that size does not really make sense if you can only gather one or two developers and no artists.

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- allow self-compiled clients on the official servers

That is already possible up to a certain point. You can compile your own client and copy the artwork binaries from the main client. I did that a while back when I always got stuck on the Ojaveda road with the official client.

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- come up with some rules about modified clients and what modifications would be acceptable for the official servers. (Everything allowing cheating obviously not, also not something that might endanger the stability of the server...but people including copy and paste support or a spellchecker in the client should be allowed to try out...in general don't discourage people from adding new features to PS but rather encourage them)

Well, simple rules won't stop cheaters from modifying their client. On the other hand this should not be a problem, as nearly every action is controlled by the server. Even if cheaters do find a way to cheat that should not matter either. Sooner or later obvious cheaters probably will be detected and then their character should just be deleted. Cheaters might even be a good thing as they show which part of the server code has to be improved.

I have another proposition for your long list of improvements:

  • Revise the recruitement page.

The recruitement page reads like an application form for a full time job. Development should be fun and that document does not read like PS development is fun.

Aiwendil

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2010, 08:12:40 am »
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- allow self-compiled clients on the official servers

That is already possible up to a certain point. You can compile your own client and copy the artwork binaries from the main client. I did that a while back when I always got stuck on the Ojaveda road with the official client.

Possible of course...allowed...not so sure.
From the [GAME POLICY 03] Privacy and Hacking
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You should never test hacks on an official server. Download the CVS version of the PlaneShift server and test your hacks or mods locally, on your private server. Then report to us your findings, you will be rewarded if you find any good hack and a solution to it.

And the last post of a team member about this topic sounds like this:
The stated rule is pretty clear:  Only the packaged distro client is to be used on Laanx / EZ, period.  That said, there are some exceptions that have been permitted from time to time, for example:

1) Player modified UI windows, such as inventory and the like, which do -not- alter the functionality, but merely rearranges the presentation, have generally been allowed.  Such mods aren't supported of course, so if a mod doesn't function properly, but the packaged UI does, you're on your own, and if we update the client in such a way that breaks your mod, again you're on your own.

2) For playability or bug-tracing reasons, when we needed a wider range of test cases beyond that which we could do within the team, we may in specific cases suggest certain advance builds be tried by player-testers to help us isolalte and fix the issue.  There may be times when we're not prepared for technical reasons to make a full update release to cure a platform specific issue.  These are short term exceptions, not a free-for-all waiver of the rule, and certainly once the issue is fixed and published via the updater, the exception no longer applies.

The point is that unless otherwise directed by the team, the packaged distro client is what should be used with our servers.  If you want to try to improve the client, build your own server and test it on your own, and submit it to a dev for consideration if it fixes a bug or enhances a feature to benefit the entire player base.  You'd be encouraged to discuss your intent with a dev first to avoid wasting your time (and ours), and you probably should consider applying to the team at contributor or prospect level to get a more clear understanding of the development process and direction.

Sounds for me as if you are only allowed to use a self-compiled client if some team member told you so. And by no means you are allowed to connect to the official servers if you modified only one line from the code.
I have been using a self-compiled and modified client for the last two years I was playing so it isn't really enforced but as the rules are phrased right now they don't feel very welcoming to casual contributors. Sure, it's fine to forbid trying out code changes that might endanger the stability of the server...but some code changes like making it possible to have different logfiles for the different chat-tabs that only effect your own client shouldn't be much of a problem even on the official servers. Much easier to test there...it's kind of hard to test alliance chat on a local server.

Sorry...won't comment on the recruitment page as my words would only derail this thread then...something I don't want for a thread of Eliseth. So only saying that a overhaul of the recruitment-page is a good idea. And the list is not from me at all. It's only a collection of (selected) topics people were annoyed by in the past. While I think that most of those points are valid and worth discussing they all wouldn't be my first choice of things to change to improve PS. ;)

Edit: you know me...typos, last paragraph
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 08:24:23 am by Aiwendil »

weltall

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2010, 08:25:09 am »
self built client if are taken from svn suggested revisions are allowed. Testing alliance on a local server is quite simple just takes 2 clients and a mod on the amount of players per guild that's how I’ve developed it (a bit difficult to test it on a server which doesn't have the functionality eh?)

Aiwendil

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2010, 08:44:30 am »
Oh...include that in the rules post and done ;).

And okay...I have no clue about alliance chat at all. Was just looking for an example. All I mean is that modifications that doesn't allow players to cheat or deal with the server protocol and only change some functionality on the client should be allowed to test on official servers. Of course I could have tested the tab-completion on a local server (and did at the start)...but only on the real server I saw if it's really useful or not. And I really can't see how it should have effected anyone else than me. Of course some other modifications of me weren't really fine...like the saving of crafting and settings books and char descriptions to a file. But that's already in the cheating realm so would stay disallowed. Oh..and last but not least it's not so nice to code something to make playing easier for oneself and then be not able to use it until it's in the official sources.


derula

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2010, 01:16:39 pm »
self built client if are taken from svn suggested revisions are allowed.

I was told by an official tester that they aren't. So yet again, it's about the lack of clear rules or common understanding thereof.

Also, different logs for different chat tabs sounds awesome.

Getoran

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Re: PS SkunkWorks Project 01
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2010, 01:47:55 pm »
Sounds for me as if you are only allowed to use a self-compiled client if some team member told you so. And by no means you are allowed to connect to the official servers if you modified only one line from the code.

Oh, I didn't know that. Well I wouldn't have cared either as it was just too annoying getting stuck all the time. With my low endurance I already had to rest every few meters and with the bug on top I had to rest twice as often. But as I didn't modify the code, just the optimization parameters, it seems that I was within the rules.

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...but as the rules are phrased right now they don't feel very welcoming to casual contributors.

The whole development process does not feel very welcoming to casual contributors. On most open source projects you have a development mailing list where you can send patches to. Then they decide if they want to include that patch or not. Usually they do include it but tell you to change some things first, so it better fits their overall design. I think that is the better approach to hook up new developers as someone who has already spend hours developing a patch is more likely to make a few changes to get it accepted. Once one of your patches is accepted you already have some knowledge about the system and are more likely to develop another one.

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Sorry...won't comment on the recruitment page as my words would only derail this thread then...something I don't want for a thread of Eliseth.

Hehe, you seem to have some very strong feelings about that  :D

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While I think that most of those points are valid and worth discussing they all wouldn't be my first choice of things to change to improve PS. ;)

So what would be your fist change? Or would that escalate the thread as well?  ;)