In-game paper issues

[Raikana]

I see that you don't still get the point. I asked for solutions and nobody are bringing more then more polimics. I overeacted? Yes. Why? To make clear that the paper, if is for EVERYBODY, cannot stop the printings because of a single player.

You say try to RP? I did. By making a signs collection.
Why? Because with an IG authorization from the majority of the players, that should have been enough to publish freely.
But, while i was at it, i've been invited in a group by GM's that told me:
If someone don't want the story to get in the paper, can simply come OOCly and say [Do not publish!]. This seems intollerable to me. I can cover the names, but the story is the story, and that's why there is a NEWSPAPER.

If you don't like it you don't like a paper.
You like something different... assume it.

Comparing the civil rights to this topic seems necessary to me.

Now. Simply. If you want the G&T back, or another paper edited by me, i exposed my conditions in the "super post" i made saturday.
I want a solution. Do someone want it too? Please try to avoid posting here if your intent is not to solve the situation.

@TALAD:
Your words are right. Anyway i see that my point of view is considered "weird" here...

@SANGWA:
Are you the same sangwa that sent me a PM?

[Vakachehk]

@SANGWA:
Are you the same sangwa that sent me a PM?

There's only one Sangwa in this game 

Well I believe that the paper should be free, you have my signature.


Raikana when you run something big like the paper it take courage to keep it going because you are on the internet and their are people who want to destroy things like that. Keep going and you'll get stronger at it 

[Sangwa]

Yes, I'm the same person. I thought you had left though, hence my remark. It's good that you didn't though, since your paper is certainly a fun part of my RP experience.

This signature thing has no actual weight. It's just a waste of time for the players that bother with it. What matters is convincing the GMs and from your words it seems they're not overly impressed.

I believe publishing books against someone's will is rarely a good reason for a ban, unless it's done in a abusive fashion. Same criteria used for trolling: you're only punished if you publish something someone doesn't want published over and over and over again.

I don't think GM rules need to have anything to do with civil rights, freedom of speech and whatnot, since this game environment is (fortunately) controlled. The current modus operandi is clear: don't do stuff that involve other people if they disagree with it. Sounds good to me. If it means keeping some published stuff out of this paper or that... Well, not a biggie. You've made some... 10 issues? This happened only once.
So my solution to the problem is simple: GM's, shouldn't talk bans unless someone is actually abusing (i.e. repeating an offense, being too obnoxious, etc.); Players... Well, you can't reason with those.

[Sarva]

Just for the information of everyone here is the link to the posted game rule/policy on  harassment http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=31960.msg367020#msg367020">

Would a single instance of something published in the paper against someone's will be considered harassment? Probably not, would multi cases of printing something in the paper against someone's will be considered harassment? It would have to be looked at carefully by the GM team to determine but the more times something is done by one person that is against the will of another person you are increasing the chances of it looking like harassment[/url]

[verden]

This discussion is perfect for these forums ... much ado about nothing. The thing to do would have been to keep publishing the paper, if one is actually committed to the game, and document closely all history and contacts relating to the paper and its associates. Bringing in concepts of civil rights here is moot, this game is not a government, there is no mandate being given by the players to this game, it is a private system, and you have no expectation of "free speech" or rights on this system.  Enough of that particular red herring. That being said, to cause such a furor over something that only might happen maybe in the future is a waste of time for everyone involved. Deleting a character based upon supposition, projection, and possible future problems looks to be overy dramatic, insincere, and fabricated. Is this what you were planning all along? Raise a non-existent issue and then try to get as much attention as possible from it by making a big scene about it and dramatically delete your character? Enough.

[Raikana]

Verden... apparently you are talking about something you don't know... or you are very offensive for nothing...  

Bringing in concepts of civil rights here is moot, this game is not a government, there is no mandate being given by the players to this game, it is a private system, and you have no expectation of "free speech" or rights on this system.

Not in the game system. In the game... inside! If you prefere let's say IG or IC. (even if the otharchy is a conservative regime, there is no reason to don't introduce the fight for free speech INGAME... many players are agree!)

That being said, to cause such a furor over something that only might happen maybe in the future is a waste of time for everyone involved.

Again:
1) I have been obstaculated in past on the doing of the paper, and i've been obstaculated just before of my decision to delete the char.
2) Is a matter of principles.

Deleting a character based upon supposition, projection, and possible future problems looks to be overy dramatic, insincere, and fabricated. Is this what you were planning all along? Raise a non-existent issue and then try to get as much attention as possible from it by making a big scene about it and dramatically delete your character? Enough.

Oh my god.
You look like a real Sherlock Holmes!
Did you found out all this plan alone or someone helped you out?
I'll pass over on your offence, cause we are here for solutions, but if you have some doubt about the fame of the journal just ask to a player... if you play of course.
I will not justify myself against such a ridiculous insinuation.

PS: I want to let clear that, if i'm still here talking, is for the GOOD people i met ingame. Only for them! If i was not asked to do it, i would have leaved this place and the people like YOU Verden, since the first day of Raikana's delection. If i'm still here is not for YOU Verden. Is for the (many) good people of the game.

[Sulaika]

Okay, so if you can't handle the rule that if someone OOC says no to a rp,  to stop it, then you should think about your intentions. Why making it all so dramatic? Do you think all people will come to you now and say, please don't print this and this? No!!! But you don't see the other people that are wanting the newspaper, that all does not matter to you and you just see one person saying no and now you think your newspaper is dead. That's totally nonesense. If I were you, I would respect the no and just continue with the good work. Wow what a drama for just such a little no! Really think about it, it is just one person that said no please do not print it. Sorry if i sound a bit bad, I don't mean it bad. I just want you to think about it again, why can't you respect the no? Take care. Sulaika.

[BoevenF]

Probably there's more in all this mess that we don't know about it, so it's simply useless to add more wood into the fire.

[jenideandre]

I've never met any of the creatures involved, but from reading the whole thread it seems clear that there was an issue ingame and a GM (innocuously perhaps) decided to bring out the "ban" word while discussing the problem.  Judging from Talad's response, it seems he gets this.  This issue should not have been an issue - and in fact with the right GM (the only one I know who is sensitive and smart enough to do it is Eliseth, but I certainly don't know them all) it would not have been an issue.

Some of the players here are high strung (ahem, I play Karenina and am totally so).  In order to keep good ones like Raikana, you just need to have GMs who know how to de-escalate.  Sounds like that discussion is going on behind the scenes, I'm really surprised and glad about it.

Raikana, never met you but hope you return.  I don't play much these days but I think it must have been awesome to have a newspaper and maybe a bit of a gossip rag ingame.  Darling idea, I do hope you go back to it and with pleasure too.  My favorite people seem to like you very much (hola Ear, Roled, Dan, Nina curtsies and hugs you guys).  When I play again, I will try my best to do something newsworthy.

Impressive resolution, frankly.  Cheers to all.

[verden]

If one is here for the "good" players, then there is no reason to stop publishing the paper. The "good" players won't interfere with you, or report you to the GM for something you say about them in the paper. Probably only the "bad" players will do that. And there doesn't appear to be any indication that you were actually told by the GMs to not publish the paper, correct? So... whether you find it offensive or not... this is much ado about nothing. Go in game and keep publishing your paper. If your concept of "free speech" doesn't include the opinions of people who don't want to be in your paper, then don't put them in the paper and respect them. This isn't a country, it is a private system, it doesn't matter how many people support an idea... the system belongs to those that develop the game. Don't like that answer? Guess what, there is no political way to change the system so you'll have to get your own game. But on another note, as I have played for about 6 years now I can say that there have been quite a few other newspapers in game to this time. Not one of them closed down because of issues of "free speech" or due to GM conflicts AFAIK. Go in game and publish your paper, or stop worrying on about it on these forums. Nobody made you delete your character. Sorry if any of my statements are blunt, but they are blunt without personal rancor.

[Raikana]

 

I'm starting to be wordless.
I explained and explained and explained... this is becomming terrible and i'm becomming to be tired after a whole week of free insults. 

I can't understand how some of you can be so blind.

@Sulaika:
If i did not get mad for this, this would never change. You still associate the normal rule of harassment to the newspaper and by doing this you show up only your superficiality. Drama? Excluding 1 day lastweek, when all this started, i spent a week here wit the maximum calm to explain all to everybody... where is the drama? So you considere drama the fight for getting more accurate rules? Do you think your commentary is useful? Try to give solutions. Retroactive considerations are not useful now. The past is past. Let's make the future!

@Jeniandre: My wish is to return. I'm glad you are among the people that understand my struggle about "IG free speech" and about modifing the harassment rule to avoid a single person to stop the printings of a newspaper that serves LOTS of players.

@Verden: This isn't a country but is a comunity. And rules can be adapted according to the new realities of the game. Anyway your solution is: Shut up and go on working or leave? How am I suppose to do it happily in these conditions? If this is your solution, i've heared it.

Now. I will make the last request to the STAFF of the game.
Can we adapt the harassment rule by adding something about "RPs that represents many players cannot be stopped by a single player, unless they are offensive, false ecc..."?
I just need to know if YES or NO, or at least WHEN and HOW it will be discussed by the STAFF?

Is a simple request with no dramas (no dramas Sulaika) and for a good cause, for this paper and for the future papers.

To make an example:
"If i organize and event with 20 people. Than come a player and say [don't do it]. I think the other 20 can simply ignore that player, withouth fearing the "harassment"."
The same concept is for the paper, that has not 20 but more then 50 subscribers and another big ammount of occasional readers.

Please i need an aswer from someone authoritative like Talad or so. Most of the Masters are not "allowed" to think, so they go on repeating the rules, repeating the rules, repeating the rules, etcc, etcc, etcc... to the nausea.

As i said this is my last request. If i don't get an official answer i will not bother you again. 

[Sarva]

Can we clear up one misconception that her been repeated in this discussion several times?  I just reread the log of the group discussion with Raikana. There were 4 GMs in that discussion and Raikana. At no time did any of the GMs bring up the word ban in that discussion.  The word ban was used three times during the discussion and all three time Raikana brought up the word herself.  A couple of times I mentioned the fact that there is a rule against harassment ( see the link I provided a bit earlier in this thread) and I said if we got complaints from players then we would have to look into the situation and see if what happened was harassment and if it was do something to stop the harassment.

Raikana I will repeat what I said in the previous post where I provided the link to the rule against harassment.

Would a single instance of something published in the paper against someone's will be considered harassment? Probably not, would multi cases of printing something in the paper against someone's will be considered harassment? It would have to be looked at carefully by the GM team to determine but the more times something is done by one person that is against the will of another person you are increasing the chances of it looking like harassment

[Raikana]

I knew Sarva, that you was going to repeat, repeat and repeat the same.
Sorry but "probably not" in not enough. We need to adjust the rule.

PS: Sorry if i correct you but the paper never wrote AGAINST someone. Just ABOUT someone. This is totally different.

[lilura]

Please i need an aswer from someone authoritative like Talad or so. Most of the Masters are not "allowed" to think, so they go on repeating the rules, repeating the rules, repeating the rules, etcc, etcc, etcc... to the nausea.

-GMs are authoritative and probably know more about the status of things happening in game. They have the authority to moderate IG for us

-Talad and most of the devs are busy working on debugging the new release.….I wanna go to Amdeneir!!!!  

I knew Sarva, that you was going to repeat, repeat and repeat the same.

-Sometimes the GMs have to repeat rules and repeat and repeat and repeat in different ways because it obviously takes time for some players to learn them

"If i organize and event with 20 people. Than come a player and say [don't do it]. I think the other 20 can simply ignore that player, withouth fearing the "harassment"."

As Sarva said a single instance of one player  not wanting you to do something -for a OOC reason- wouldn’t be considered harassment as I understand the rule.  

So as I see it

"RPs that represents many players cannot be stopped by a single player, unless they are offensive, false ecc..."

Is already a YES answer , you don’t need Talad to come and confirm the rules that people have been already telling you about

[Raikana]

As Sarva said a single instance of one player  not wanting you to do something -for a OOC reason- wouldn’t be considered harassment as I understand the rule. 

He said "probably"... and it's very different from "wouldn't".

The request still stands: I need someone more authoritative ensure me that. ENSURE IT. Not "probably", "maybe", etcc...