[ideas] Languages in roleplay + Scribes/letters

[BlueScreenJunky]

Hi everyone, I\'m new to Planeshift (I\'ve read the forums and the site a few months ago, but the game was so uncomplete I didn\'t bother to downlad it). I began this morning, and I must say I was impressed, the graphic engine is very nice, and despite the lack of functionnality, we could do some basic roleplay. Maybe BECAUSE of the lack of possibilities actually : you have time to roleplay when you\'re not busy making XP, slashing everything, and being PKed.

Now I also noticed that some players couldn\'t speak english well, which doesn\'t bother me (being French, I met a french guy and we talked in franch), but seems uncompatible with roleplay at first sight (\"hi, Do you speak French\" doesn\'t really fit the PS world...). But as PS needs more player, it would be cool to encourage people from all around he world to play. There also seem to be a need for support of other languages if you look at this thread . so I thought that languages should be part of the roleplay.
It wouldn\'t be that weird, as Yliakum population is made of people from the outside, which explains the variety of races, it would be logical that they came with different languages, and even if there is one official language (English) there would be several dialects (German, French, Spanish...). Now how to include that in roleplay ? first we would need to find more exotic names for the different languages, and maybe determine where they came from, and which races are most likely to speak which languages. Then we would need translators and interpreters, pretty much like in real life. One could make a living from being an interpreter, which would be a new job.
We can even imagine a few foreigners NPC, which would make it necessary for anyone (at least anyone who doesn\'t speak 4 different languages) to pay a translator to complete some quests.
Of course, 95% of the community would still be able to at least vaguely understand English, but it would be possible to roleplay. For exemple I\'m can speak english well enough to play, but I could as well pretend that I only speak french, and refuse to talk in english, or deal with someone who doesn\'t have a french interpreter.

The second idea is that you can\'t have a translator with you all the time, so you might want him to write a letter for someone in a particular language, which would also be a new job : scribe. Then things become interesting because you have to trust him, since you don\'t know what\'s really written in the letter, so you might very well have paid 200 trias for a letter which is not what you asked for.
More subtle, Imagine I suspect a scribe of being dishonest, and translating to french although he doesn\'t know a word of french (he could write some random french text taken on the net), and I ask him to write a letter for me... I think I could easily put an end to his business :-)

This letters thing can also be developped without using several languages. It would be fun (maybe even useful o_O) to be able to write a text, and save it to a scroll you could keep in your inventory, give to people, drop on the floor or even put on the walls of the city. It would also be possible to add a few things : for exemple we could use some seals, to prove that a certain person wrote the letter (that would be useful for guilds for exemple), and of course someone skilled enough would be able to make a fake seal. More, if we forget about my first language idea, there could be a special language for educated people (like Latin before), which only a few players would be able to read and write (it would require a high level, intelligence + a special training for exemple), Of course you would just type your text in english, and the reader would be able to read it or not (or only a few words ?) according to his skills, like if you have 45 points in language skill, you can right a letter so that only someone 44+ can read it, or use simpler vocabulary, syntax etc. so that anyone above 15 could read it.


Now I\'m not sure this would work, or be really useful, but I think it\'s still an interesting idea.

thanx for reading me, any comments or other ideas ?

[hook]

very very nice idea

just when i got to the end of the part you talked about different real languages in PS, i thought also about giving them different names

i think giving real languages different names would be a very good solution to both the state in which PS (and other MMORPGs are) is in with players from all around the world and the demand for more then just a \"common\" language in the World

English could be Common Language
German could be Derenekt
French: Lyseth
Italian: Tilliana
Slovene: Sylyan
...

...a built in \"correction\" system could automatically change if someone used the IRL term to the PS term (e.g.: \"please talk german\" -> \"please talk Denerekt\"; \"bitte sag\'s auf Deutsch\" -> \"bitte sag\'s auf Denerekt\")
(just ideas though, i\'m sure someone will think of more appropriate names!)

about a language for the educated and the script/scroll writing: what\'s wrong with latin? it\'s probably the simplest solution, plus imagine someone would write a treasure plan in latin or even in a less-known language (old greek, or a local language/dialect like let\'s say in Prlek or Resian, which i\'m sure no-one in PS understands) ...maybe even different fonts (think of runes, carolean miniscula, arabic, or even PS\'s own secret font) ...those could be learned by different groups, and wouldn\'t be (officially) taught around

[PokannickNow]

Very good idea!
I am french too, and i spend hours to chat in english (with dictionnary;-) ) with an other french before knowing his nationality....

Translator will be a hard job!

The fact to choose exotic name for nationality is already set in a \"real\" rpg:  \"Secret of the 7th sea\".
England is \"Avalon\", Germany \"Eisen\", France \"Montaigne\", Spain \"Castille\",....

[bbum]

Giving each race their own language extremely increases roleplaying, i know from expeirence, but its not as effective if every race starts in the same town like in ps, so it wouldnt work that well.

but what if when you got to the top, each race had a homeland? and at your homeland there were all these quests to make you stay, that would keep ps interesting for a little longer.

[BlueScreenJunky]

but what if when you got to the top, each race had a homeland? and at your homeland there were all these quests to make you stay, that would keep ps interesting for a little longer.

That would be great, but it would totally change the game. I think the devs might add it once the town is overcrowded and everyone has explored the 8 levels, but it won\'t happen anytime soon.
I agree that it would not be very logical nor easy to play because everyone starts in a pretty small town, but :
-It\'s not really supposed to Add anything to the roleplay, but prevent different languages (because there already are different languages used in Planeshift) but prevent it from ruining roleplay, with some guys running everywhere shouting \"do you speak french !?\"
-even if you can\'t play in the surface towns, Yliakum inhabitants still came from different countries in the first place (ok, the question would be : \"Why didn\'t they learn Common language after several generations ?...\"

Besides, we can begin and see if it works without modifying the game itself. It would be quite easy to create some \"Derenekt\", \"Tilliana\" and \"Sylyan\" guilds, which would represent the different communities.
Of course it should stay ONLY ROLEPLAY, because I have seen to many times people from different countries fighting on BBSs just because they were from different countries, and that\'s partly why we should use different names, you can\'t just slash a French because he\'s French... Now, killing a Montaignian or a Lysethian... why not ?  :-P
And once again that would only officialise and add roleplay to something that would happen anyway, with roleplay or without it.

I realize it will most likely not work at all, because pple will keep shouting \"do you speak french\" and \"please speak english\", instead of \"aidez moi s\'il vous plait, were is ze tavern pleeez ?\", \"Use common language or eat my axe !\" and \"I\'ll pay you 50 trias if you persuade that Derenekt guy to sell me his sword, I can\'t speak Derenekt and he won\'t listen to me\" ... but it\'s worth a try.

[hook]

Originally posted by BlueScreenJunky
I realize it will most likely not work at all, because pple will keep shouting \"do you speak french\" and \"please speak english\", instead of \"aidez moi s\'il vous plait, were is ze tavern pleeez ?\", \"Use common language or eat my axe !\" and \"I\'ll pay you 50 trias if you persuade that Derenekt guy to sell me his sword, I can\'t speak Derenekt and he won\'t listen to me\" ... but it\'s worth a try.

as i said a simple \"censorship\" (technically speaking) would do wonders here ...imagine the client or even the server changing every:

english, englais(e), englisch, angle?k(o/a/i), ... to -> Common
german, alemand(e), deutsch, nem?k(o/a/i),... to -> Denerekt
french, francais(e), franzoesisch, francosk(o/a/i),... to -> Lyseth
italian, italien(e), italienisch, ital(i)jansk(o/a/i)/itali(j)ansk(o/a/i),... to -> Tilliana
slovene, slovene, slowenisch, slovensk(o/a/i),... to -> Sylyan

as i said, you\'re all free to make better names for languages, we\'ll NEED names for all the languages in order to make this work correctly

[elminster]

I think this language stuff is the lowermost priority.
It may be done somewhen - but not NOW. Maybe 4-5 years later... maybe...

--
Greetings,
E.

[BlueScreenJunky]

Hook : of course, your built in correction system is a great idea. I was talking about the attitude, more than the names given to different languages. besides, I got a feeling that we\'ll need to prove it can be done by ourselves before it is oficially implemented into the game.
BTW your names are good, don\'t know where they came from but they do sound Planeshiftish :-) Any idea for a generic name for all those guys who are not from Yliakum ? \"surface dwellers\" maybe (hehe, Xenogears rules).

elminster : you\'re right, but I wouldn\'t say 4 years, because it will be too late, I think we need to try this while it\'s still in beta. Maybe next year, like when there is fight, and people really begin to play the game will be a good time.
OR we could do that in several years if PLaneShift is still around. Then if it\'s successful enough, we will have several servers, some official english only ones, maybe some for specific languages, like German only or Spanish only... and a multilanguage one, only for those who wants to try with different languages. Then we would be able to do it perfectly, with only players willing to roleplay their language fully.


Anyway, here are a few ideas I got during the night :-)

first, I read the History more carefully, and it occured to me that it was meant to have some \"surface dwellers\" (let\'s call them this way for now).
All races, except Krans and Lemurs (which will be the only 2 races not playable by surface dwellers), are supposed to come from magic portals. So everyone forgot about those portals now, but what if they still exist ? and what if every once in a while, some guys from another world find this portal and decide to see what\'s behind it ? Maybe outcasts, trying to find a better life elsewhere, adventurers, or just poor people given in sacrifice to the gods through those portals.
Now they can also come with their familly, or fund a new familly in Yliakum. So that after a few generation they become almost perfectly integrated. We also have to consider that they arrive with a different language, but also different knowledge and religion. They never heard of Talad and Laanx ! MOst of them probably had their own gods, but know that they are aware of the existence of a different world, with different religions, that questions all their beliefs, and they will most likely become atheists. Oh, not the first generation of course, which will still believe in their gods, but their children won\'t be taught religion in spite of their parents efforts , and won\'t believe in Laanx and Talad either, since their parents don\'t believe in them, so we will have different kind of surface dwellers :
-first generation : very rare (because very difficult or impossible to play correctly, you\'d have to create a whole new culture, religion, etc.), they have their own religion and can\'t speak common language at all. They\'re rejected by most Yliakum inhabitants.
-2nd to 4th generation : can\'t speak common language properly, they are atheist, and try be accepted by the community.
-5th+ generation : some of them forgot about their language and can only speak common language, but most of them can speak both. They are either agnostic or believe in Laanx or Talad.


Now here is how Land dwellers should play (IMO) :
-try to show how where they come from, using idioms from their language, even when they use common language.
-avoid using /shout if they don\'t use common language
-Try to find a guide which speak both languages, or be a guide himself.
-Try to Join a common language guild. We don\'t want them to group just because they speak the same language, especially for guild wars. So here we would need a few \"surface dwellers friendly guilds\" which accept people who don\'t speak common language well, or not at all.
-Take the game as a chance to learn/improve English :-)



PS : Elminster, I just read your post on the other thread (damn, it was a bad Idea, I should have posted this on the already existing language thread, but I was affraid noone would read it). So I agree that it is not necessary, and hard to do, but I\'m just here to suggest things and try them, if it doesn\'t work then okay, let\'s all use english, but I think it can be fun and has never been done in a MMORPG before, so why not give it a try ?

[hook]

Originally posted by elminster
I think this language stuff is the lowermost priority.
It may be done somewhen - but not NOW. Maybe 4-5 years later... maybe...

i agree it\'s very low priority, but it\'s that easy to implement (IMHO) that a dev will probably implement it when he temporary gives up on a more urgent issue - hey, it\'s just a replace words with another word app and an announcement on the forums and the page

BlueScreenJunkie:

names: i just used my imagination and tried to make names appropriate to the sound of the language that\'s spoken
attitude: well i think most people playing PS up untill now are pretty ok, noobies will probably get used to RP\'ing and the names in some time
your other ideas: post them in another thread, so it\'s more coherent

[BlueScreenJunky]

all ideas are basically linked : they aim at explaining why people are using several languages in , and I don\'t see myself creating 5 different threads  :-P

[hook]

Originally posted by BlueScreenJunky
all ideas are basically linked : they aim at explaining why people are using several languages in , and I don\'t see myself creating 5 different threads  :-P

upon re-reading your ideas, i have to admit that they are linked in a way :rolleyes: