How to make a good MMORPG

[AendarCallenlasse]

Project Entropia also has the worst lag I have ever encountered in a game, the reason I stopped playing it.  But anyway I think this thread is pretty pointless.  Dark leave the developing to the Devs.  Post suggestions, don\'t tell them what they should be doing.

[Darkanan]

What I posted was a suggestion. The topic is also WISH list so that is sorta what I wish for in a game. Who knows maybe it caught the eye of one of the devs, the least I can hope for.

[Geminosity]

I\'d actually like to see an RPG with no visible stats and none of this \'kill monster! level up!\' silliness for once... it\'s kind of turning into an old formula and it\'s not very exciting to hear people talking about their lvl 28 ranger with 53 strength instead of the mighty warrior who killed a dragon by beating it to death with it\'s own limbs

but that\'s just me... I\'m awkward like that ^~

[paxx]

We had ideas of only using word descripters for stats, Weak, feable, normal, strong?Muy Macho. But then we where looking at race variances and how we would need a lot of descriptors and just decided on numbers.

Same went for skills and all things.

But I would love to make a game where you don?t get many more HP then you start off with and your stats don?t change?you just get better at defense and such, but players would not see their characters progress much and that was over ruled.

Not really an issue. But those are some of the ideas that got shot down in times past.

[Geminosity]

the easiest way to do things is to represent them graphically and as for \'skills\' just treat them like the perks and flaws system in fallout or in one of the char screen thingies that\'s already in PS

to represent things graphically you\'d have to have a ton of animations, that\'s the only downside to it but having your swing go from one that just about carries you off your feet because you\'re not used to balancing with a sword to a skilled, super-fast slash is something most people can see and appreciate ^^

it\'d also be better if skills went up via use rather than \'oh I killed an ogre, now I can cook mexican food better\' because that\'s just plain silly
of course it would have to be based on the difficulty compared with the current skill level... you\'re not gonna get great with a sword by hacking at trees forever, but you can start on trees and work your way up to dragons =D

In the background it could be taken further by having a less \'digital\' level system too... lots of little levels that have a small but almost percevable effect rather than the same thing for ages then PING!!! you\'re suddenly a lot better


Edit: someone better start arguing with me soon or I might actually start thinking I\'ve got a good idea here or something

[beza1e1]

I agree with paxx, such a system would favor roleplaying. I like the Fallout approach. For becoming stronger, you had to make some surgical improvements, which took a lot of time (weeks in-game time, you had 90 days for the main quest). You only became better in skills like shooting or stealing.

[Nadius]

in this type of game you might be able to improve stats and hp by magic gear or a very powerfull and expensive spell being cast on you... yea i like that one powerfull wizzards can cast perminant stat improving spells.... and they could use some very hard to get item or maybe a christal shard that you only get when a wizzard casts a spell on a willing subject and that subject looses a stat of his choice.... that would make this spell very expensive and hard to do

[sashok]

I think the more realistic the game is(to real life), the better it is.

[Fanomatic2000]

Yes, especially with magic crystals, monsters, spells, gods etc.
Heh, or perhaps that wasn\'t what you meant? J/K

[Nadius]

this is a fantacy game!!!! meaning we have magic wizzards, healing clerics, and fire breathing enemies........    how is this realistic???

i agree some things need to be but not all. if it was too realistic then it would not provide the escape from reality that we all like

[Darkanan]

Good Point Nadius.

I like the graphical approach, but its sort of hard to gauge your performance because people need something concrete that they can see to tell them how strong they are so they can compare themselves to others. Also it makes killing of monsters a little harder because while you might be able to land an attack on a rat how can you gauge if you can land an attack on a Dragon and thus should you go and fight a dragon. Whereas in other games its like well you need 45 int and 45 wis and Chainlightning spell and you can drop dragons in two spells or 70 strength and a decent sword.

Instead of number based skills the idea of having words describe them is a great idea. The first MUD I ever played whose name I sorta forgot but it was pay per play so I Didn\'t play it long had that system. They had skills like Sword fighting, Shielding, Fishing, Baking, Club Fighting, Exploring, Speed, hunting, ... And there were like 20 levels and you start out as inexperienced but you can progess over time. Another cool thing was that to progress you could only do that in 2 ways. You could learn the skill from another player by \"training\" with them in which someone who might be a master hunter training a novice hunter and gets them to a fledgling hunter. There were also certain NPC\'s that could train for a price and there was always the option that the longer you did such skills such as sword fighting the more it would go up. I personally like that system the most. It is one of the most unique I have ever seen and has moved away from the unrealistic system of numbers to display skills/stats.

[Geminosity]

bleh... people are always after a silly safety net

in RO or PSO you can\'t really tell if you\'re ready for something or not unless you try and fight it or go look at a fansite. where\'s your sense of adventure?

other clues could be put in via sound, graphics and music.  your character could take up a slightly less certain stance if the monster\'s a bit too much for you, the model could be scaled up a little bit to make it look bigger and meaner and you could drop the light a little to make it seem darker ^^
If you were subtle enough with those kinds of effects then people would pick up on them without thinking, and before someone starts being silly I\'m talking about small changes, almost barely percievable not a storm while your character quivers and the rat grows to 2000 times it\'s size.

of course being silly is half of what forum arguements seem to be about; if you\'re smacking rats about easily then it\'s a pretty good clue that they\'re not quite challenging you but it\'s not like it\'s a world of rats and dragons is it?  what kind of fantasy world would that be? =P
there would be a wealth of creatures to test your skill on between a rat and a dragon and by using the advice and experience of others (remember the social part of MMO? ) you can pretty much work out what\'s good for you to tangle with =D

and what\'s with RPGs always being about fighting 24/7?  It\'s taken long enough for people to realise that merchants and healers might be a good idea, I hate to see how long before it takes before imaginations pick up enough for other types of RPG career on a more widespread scale like entertainers and other non-combat roles that are fun or challenging without being boring :rolleyes:

[sashok]

I didn\'t mean realistin in that way, I realize that it\'s medieval approach with wizardry and such.
By realistic I mean, feeling like you are in another world, not just in a game

that means, NPCS that don\'t just stand there everyday, that can start converstation with you.
creeps that don\'t just spawn like in the game, that are actually born and if you kill too many, you can wipe out the species.  

You know, VERY REALISTIC.  That\'s in MY optinion a good mmorpg. But ofcourse its hard to create such a thing.

P.s. I only listed a few realistic things, but you get my drift...

[Darkanan]

Doing the stats with words rather than numbers would rock. Having something concrete that you can guage your abilities and progress also makes gaming much more enjoyable and less programming intense.

[random]

This is in response to an earlier statement about complex combat systems.

You get complex combat systems because it\'s a point where you can no longer role-play your way through the situation. Just because I\'m a warrior from the highlands doesn\'t mean I\'m automatically going to be victorious against the mud people of the plains. You can make decisions and tacitcal maneuvers for your character, but you can not simply role-play your way through the situation. \"I swing my sword and cut off his arm\" doesn\'t work. Atleast not without some other form of resolution.

I mean, I guess you could, but what\'s to keep someone from simply taking over the world in a sentence.

Also, about rogues and charisma. In order to do their job, the things that make them a rogue, they have to have dexterity ( or agility or whatever.) Being able to break into a safe doesn\'t take an ounce of charisma. It takes intelligence and the ability to move yoru fingers about precisely.

Charisma isn\'t a bad thing for a rogue, though. Becoming friends with the bank manager, getting him drunk and ferreting the combination out of him, while roguish in nature, can be done by anyone with the charisma to do so.

A rogues abilities lie in his expertise at manipulating his fingers hands and body well.