Winch access... The Never Ending Frustration

[Karlyle]

I agree with RlyDontKnow and Sangwa.  If it would be possible to give pemit to someone to get signed; and also about the trainers.  Although I think there should be some payout quests from NPC's inside, they are merchants (thet got the money )

[provisionist1]

"I LOVE RP... and questing is the "ANTI - RP" ..."

I really disagree with this statement. I think questing is simply role-playing with the game, with the world and story that the Devs have worked so hard to create for us to enjoy.

I'll admit, it would be great to see more player-character merchants and merchant guilds with whom anyone could run errands (quests) for and earn money and items, but I think with the progression this game has made (I first played it back in 2005, the Crystal Blue era), that's not all that far away. In fact, it's already begun to an extent, with advertisements for guilds/players wanting to buy items from players.

[Sarva]

At least for mounts the only reason you need Winch access is to pay your taxes for the mount. The signing of your permit is basically a way to show you have paid your taxes for your mount. Since the tax collector isn't located in the Winch it would make more sense to me to have people see the tax collector to pay their mount taxes and get their permit signed. Having a mount does make the running around to do quests a bit easier. To give people a break in getting a mount I say change the mount quests so that people need to deal with the tax collector instead of needing Winch access.

[bilbous]

License fees are not usually paid to a tax collector, that doesn't mean one of the functionaries in Iragdun's office near Kada's could not collect the fee but the main reason for having it in the winch would seem to be to force people to do more quests.

[Gillis Norone]

Winch access seems to have some issues with the recently added quest chaining. Apparently there used to be 3 quest lines to get winch access. And apparently 2 of them now need winch access to be solved...

Feel free to PM me if you want to know more.

[LigH]

Having a mount makes especially those hillarious quests easier which are required to get access to the Winch...

Recursive problems are sooo Murphy.

[Lady Crankenstein]

So, iwth the latest update to the questing system we have at least 80% odf the quests in "Chains".  this complicates things even more.... I know because I am in the middle of it right now. It appears that some quests in a chain may also be part of another chain that crosses over and through the chain I am on ... which means to complete this one... I have to go start and complete that one...   So, it appears to me that the chains are actually a WEB.
  Let me share some simple truths that I have learned about entertainment :

1) just because a developer spends endless hours creating something, does NOT make it entertaining.  ( I am a composer and performer, I know about this very well )
2) Entertainers / developers are NOT the best person to determine what is entertaining.... the AUDIENCE IS.
3) Go into any bar where folks are dancing... are they EVER dancing to the NutCracker Suite?...   no.... because complicated is not what the public relates to.
4) Complicated puzzles filled with zingers, stingers, teasers ending with disapointment ...  is not fun ... it sounds much more like revenge.
5) are you proud and laughing at how complicated all this for your audience?....  do you really think they are laughing with you?

    RP is the best here for me because the people make it so... not because we run so many many many mamy times back and forth back and forth back and forth back and forth back and forth  ... who ever thinks THAT is RP... will never understand what RP is.
La Crank

[Suno_Regin]

But questing is fun, guys. Do you know that quest where you're sent from the Bronze Doors to Hydlaa to pick up a book, but then sent to Ojaveda because someone there has said book, only to find that in the dungeons under the Laanx Temple a thief has it because they stole it from Ojaveda? Then you must run back to Ojaveda to return the book so they can read it for you to return to the library and get a copy of it to bring back to the Bronze Doors to the original flipping person who asked you to get the book in the first place?

Yeah. I love that quest.

[Candy]

 Please , understand, on the RP server, it is very counter productive.... and to me , an offense.

I wouldn't consider it an offense so much as an annoyance, but yeah, questing takes up a lot of time that could be spent roleplaying. It's pretty rare to find the help with quests that you need ICly.

The Winch access might not be necessary to enter for rp'ers, but still, it is visually a nice area to see and to rp inside of. I personally hate the idea of closing off areas to players until some insane series of mind numbing torture is endured. For that matter, nearly all of the training and leveling in PS feels like torture to me.

Isn't there some way to make it actually fun? I don't even mind if it takes a long time as long as it could be fun. Instead of the constant moving of items from box to box to train cooking or metallurgy or even mine etc., why not make it into some kind of game within game? Why couldn't training be something like a tetris or any other simple game where your score could add to your level of skill or experience learned? Just my random thoughts.

If it's at all possible, minigames would be great in PS. Perhaps something that'd make fishing not feel exactly like mining...heck, stop mining from feeling like mining - it's the most mind-numbing aspect of PlaneShift! As for training and leveling, most of the ways I can think of to make it more fun come from the gameplay in other MMOs - even WoW players were getting bored with Wrath of the Lich King, but now in the latest expansion, you actually have to pay attention in fights. I'm not saying add don't-stand-in-the-fire mechanics and combat pets and spec trees that'd probably take twenty billion years for a team of volunteers at the rate PS is updated to make functional, but it'd be nice if there was more to grinding out a level of insert-weapon-here than hitting our normal stance hotkey with q1 weapons in hand and then making a sandwich in real life while our character does all the work.

The fact it used to be worst doesn't mean we can't improve it again...
And it doesn't mean one can't find it bad now.

Agreed. Remember playing with sticks and rocks and walking uphill both ways through a mile of snow to get to school? Yeah, we don't get to complain now because hey, our grandparents had their own problems back in the day.

My feelings lean a little bit towards anti-quests and my character does not have winch access. She does not have a mount saying that she is holding off until she can have the same ride as Talad used during his appearance in Hydlaa Square some cycles ago; a Pterosaur.

They're supposed to be so expensive only merchant families can afford them aren't they?

The real question seems to be, Why does one need a mount? That is meant as a redundant question and it is not meant to disrespect those who have answered that and worked for a mount.

Why does one need a car?

But I suppose the Option to buy, or bribe your way in could be plausible, it would have to cost a hell of a lot though, mabey 1/2 to 1 mill [yeah that might not be a lot to some ]

Oh yes, great idea, trade hours and hours of questing for hours and hours of mining...we'd all have such fun with that.

 Let me share some simple truths that I have learned about entertainment :

1) just because a developer spends endless hours creating something, does NOT make it entertaining.  ( I am a composer and performer, I know about this very well )
2) Entertainers / developers are NOT the best person to determine what is entertaining.... the AUDIENCE IS.
3) Go into any bar where folks are dancing... are they EVER dancing to the NutCracker Suite?...   no.... because complicated is not what the public relates to.
4) Complicated puzzles filled with zingers, stingers, teasers ending with disapointment ...  is not fun ... it sounds much more like revenge.
5) are you proud and laughing at how complicated all this for your audience?....  do you really think they are laughing with you?

    RP is the best here for me because the people make it so... not because we run so many many many mamy times back and forth back and forth back and forth back and forth back and forth  ... who ever thinks THAT is RP... will never understand what RP is.

Indeed, except for one thing: Some of us enjoy the complicated puzzles...I say leave a few of those in, but not for the "neccessary" quests for say, mounts or access to areas with trainers...just for sought-after items or interesting lore (though if you go for the latter I suggest hinting that all you're gonna get is a story, since some players might feel jipped with that).

[Aramara Meibi]

Indeed, except for one thing: Some of us enjoy the complicated puzzles...I say leave a few of those in, but not for the "neccessary" quests for say, mounts or access to areas with trainers...just for sought-after items or interesting lore (though if you go for the latter I suggest hinting that all you're gonna get is a story, since some players might feel jipped with that).

but it isn't a puzzle, it's just difficult, needlessly difficult. there's nothing to "figure out" in way of solving a puzzle. The quest chains are seemingly random. The only way to "solve" the chain is to systematically go to every npc and blindly do quest after quest until that ONE quest that you were really after is finally unlocked. no rhyme or reason to it.

as it stands, if a player wants to gain winch access, and they go to the winch gate, there's a sign that says "speak with Raithen". so the player trudges to the BD only to find Raithen has nothing to say. That right there is the tip of the whole convoluted iceberg. There should be some dialogue available like "Can you tell me how to gain access to the winch?" at which point the NPC can give you a list of people to help out to gain his trust to give you access.

THAT, dear friends, would be LOGICAL, REALISTIC, and IMMERSIVE. It shouldn't be a blind shoot in the dark.

[Aensor]

IMHO The core problem is that the chains lack their connection. You often dont know where the chain goes on and basically have to do all quests aviable in hope to unlock the next quest towards your goal. Then at some point you have done every but one quest aviable and have to recheck everything again. And so on.
Another problem, two times i spent 2 evenings trying to find the right quests and failed. Finally consulting a kind GM who lookd things up and - 2 times a bugged quest was the problem.
These issues can and will be solved but at the moment it can really be tedious.
       

[Suno_Regin]

Quests lack flow. That's simple enough. They can easily be altered, yet for some reason no one likes to edit previous works. My example is with the Holy Script quest that Sharven gives. That quest has been around for like a decade (no exaggeration), and not a single thing has changed with it except for the utility to choose what answer to give to the NPC's instead of handtyping them. It wouldn't be too difficult, if we're going to be doing chain quests now, to go to the end of each quest as the NPC is speaking and that NPC says "Oh, and <insertnamehere> was looking for you. I think he wants help" or maybe "Did you hear that? Oh! <insert name here> is calling for you"...

Now I have to ask: is there a problem with the license where we can't make this easier for the players? Has all the work of Xillix become some sort of taboo to touch, or are people simply reluctant to go into the system, figure out which quests connect to which, and make the player-side of things easier to manage? This same question can be regarded toward quest typos. Once it's done, can it be changed? Cause I see a lot of typos not only in the things NPC's say to me (grammar included), but even the pre-written responses to choose from when answering what the NPC's say to me.

[Aensor]

Dont forget, settings team currently consists of .. one (?) dev only. So dont be too harsh.. The todo list must be huge.

Critics are fine but it can easily become discouraging.

[Roled]

I.. um... like quests..... 

RR 

[Mordaan]

I agree, Suno.  This is where lack of transparency really hurts, or at least really grinds things to a halt sometimes.  All this secrecy even within devs or prospects where only a select few have access to everything needed makes it very hard to address everything.  If I were to tackle some of this stuff, and I'm not saying I'm volunteering, but who knows, I might....  

...I would need to see every word spoken by every NPC to get a sense of each's personality, know exactly how the chains work, then adjust/fix/add/whatever dialog necessary for each quest to be clear yet be consistent to that NPC and the settings.  There are what, 200+ NPCs? and over 300 quests?  That's a monsterous task for one person or even two or three.  But the more people involved the greater the chance for inconsistencies.  It comes down to organization and communication.  And with a volunteer group who come and go, that gets difficult.

We just need some dedication.  From what I hear, drjack is in the process of recruiting.  Hopefully that goes well and things can move along soon.  And quite frankly, native English speakers would be a big plus.  

[/rant]