Re: The Great inconsistency hunt is on!

[LigH]

The Settings department was so crazy to wind around any directions and even invented "East Stronghand" to explain the name of the "East passage" not being related to the direction east.

But there are still NPCs who talk about north:

I'm Jefecra Harcrit, Lieutenant of the northern guards of the Hydlaa plaza area.

My name is Rabartus Livrandar, I am a guard assigned to the northern part of the Hydlaa plaza area. I am under the command of Jefecra, a great guy.

[verden]

Better to change East Stronghand's name and avoid ordinal references in settings then.

[Candy]

Or just use "north, east, south, and west" because that's what the players would remember...seems a lot simpler, doesn't it?

[MishkaL1138]

Look, there are 7 Bronze Doors fortresses in the Dome. Does that mean we have 7 cursed Norths?! Puh-leeze…

Or just use "north, east, south, and west" because that's what the players would remember...seems a lot simpler, doesn't it?

Maybe, MoMo! But you'll agree that, after explaining all of the above, you'll concur with some of us that cardinal points have absolutely no place in Yliakum.

UNLESS…

… the Crystal emits a magnetic field that can make the use of compasses (and therefore minimaps) feasible within the game. Since it's a transparent biga$$ rock that glows because it's also radiactive, why not make it magnetic too? Until then, East Hydlaa is East Hydlaa, "North" Hydlaa is Upper Hydlaa, and no such thing like North, East, West or South for me. Sorry, but I can't cope with that.

[Catlemur]

There is no understanding of electricity hence no understanding of magnetic fields among the citizens of Yliakum so forget about it.

[Mask]

There is no understanding of electricity hence no understanding of magnetic fields among the citizens of Yliakum so forget about it.

Where did you get this information from? I like the whole "science in Yliakum", and there must be other sources than Jayose and different NPCs.

Also, to understand magnetism, you need mathematics (to describe the field etc) - and even without the understanding the construction of a compass is possible. You do not need to understand electricity to understand magnetism.

… the Crystal emits a magnetic field that can make the use of compasses (and therefore minimaps) feasible within the game. Since it's a transparent biga$$ rock that glows because it's also radiactive, why not make it magnetic too? Until then, East Hydlaa is East Hydlaa, "North" Hydlaa is Upper Hydlaa, and no such thing like North, East, West or South for me. Sorry, but I can't cope with that.

Just because it emits radiation (in the form of IR and visible light), it does not have to be radioactive. 
And there are some topics around in the forum discussing the feasibility of a compass or deal with navigation.

Also, before the fear emerges that the big crystal mutates everything in Yliakum - that should be the least of the problems, given that the "sun" is inside the atmosphere in Yliakum. If it really emits enough energy to turn molecules into plasma (see: being crystaled), this would mean it is surrounded by a plasma cloud (maybe source of the light). But it would also mean a heatsource so large that Yliakum's climate would be tricky at best: what we know as clouds would raise into the air until it is either turned into plasma or condenses on the dome, where it would be enriched with minerals (sulpur, lime, iron, etc)  befor falling down again (or flows back into rivers etc.).
Since the lake is the sink, most of the minerals would end up there, strongly influencing it's ecosystem. This is of course speculation on my part.
Another problem is how the stone around the big crystal (it needs to be embedded somewhere) absorbes the crystal while still holding it in place/be stable enough to form the dome. Sulpur enriched rain is bad enough, there is absolutely no need for lava occasionally dripping down from the ceiling (dome).

[Candy]

Uhh, forces still exists without the understanding of them...apples still fell off plenty of trees before one happened to land on Newton's head.

Also, this is a fantasy setting. Do we really have to nitpick the science of it? Is there a scientific explanation for the Death Realm and its portals, the Crystal Eclipses, the six ways of magic? No? Gee, maybe we should just take those out of the game because we can't explain them either. (Sarc)

[provisionist1]

Indeed...

As soon as I saw 'compasses,' 'electricity,' 'magnetism' etc. I knew I needed to respond- Primitive lodestones existed in Medieval Europe from about 1100 or possibly earlier. Essentially they were slivers of magnetite embedded in cork and floating in a water bath. Later, it was discovered that an iron needle could be magnetised to do the same thing, and eventually craftsmen were able to make a pivot for the needle to turn on, as opposed to floating in water. All that was required/known was that the needle always adjusted itself in a particular direction, which happened to be roughly the same as the north star. (I'm doing a PhD in medieval cartography).

Now, there have been hundreds of wishes for maps in-game, and I think it must be said once and for all that the Devs have NO intention of providing a top-down 'god' map that always shows your location. In-game maps have already been developed, and are great because they do not take away from the immersive atmosphere! However, there's no reason that compasses couldn't exist. Not sure why they're necessary.

To be honest, considering the shape of the great cave, different directions would have evolved into the language than east, west etc. They would probably be to describe the following: Towards the stone wall or towards the edge of that level, up or down to the next levels, or clockwise / counterclockwise on a level. There wouldn't be a conception of north/south/east/west...

[Mask]

... a scientific explanation...

Although this brings it straight to the point, I think Larry Niven nailed it pretty much with the sentence "Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology." 

Indeed...

As soon as I saw 'compasses,' 'electricity,' 'magnetism' etc. I knew I needed to respond- Primitive lodestones existed in Medieval Europe from about 1100 or possibly earlier. Essentially they were slivers of magnetite embedded in cork and floating in a water bath. Later, it was discovered that an iron needle could be magnetised to do the same thing, and eventually craftsmen were able to make a pivot for the needle to turn on, as opposed to floating in water. All that was required/known was that the needle always adjusted itself in a particular direction, which happened to be roughly the same as the north star. (I'm doing a PhD in medieval cartography).

Now, there have been hundreds of wishes for maps in-game, and I think it must be said once and for all that the Devs have NO intention of providing a top-down 'god' map that always shows your location. In-game maps have already been developed, and are great because they do not take away from the immersive atmosphere! However, there's no reason that compasses couldn't exist. Not sure why they're necessary.

To be honest, considering the shape of the great cave, different directions would have evolved into the language than east, west etc. They would probably be to describe the following: Towards the stone wall or towards the edge of that level, up or down to the next levels, or clockwise / counterclockwise on a level. There wouldn't be a conception of north/south/east/west...

 

I do not know if Yliakum has a sufficiently strong magnetic system to make a compass work, but a spherical coordiante system should be completely feasible.

[MishkaL1138]

After reading the last posts, Mishka came to a conclusion…

[LigH]

Stop talking about compasses and magnetic fields.

That's not a new topic.

It has been beaten to death before.

Developers decided to avoid the obvious. There is no reason to argue anymore.

[LigH]

And now for something completely different...

Rolara Hammersong and her husband (called "Lucky") came to Hydlaa to find more customers for their meat, as they are butchers.

I believe they may want to sell their meat even...

[Chessire]

Sorry to go back to compasses for a sec, they would be completely useless. The reason for this is the crystal is over there you don't need a freakin needle to point at it. End of story. Imagine someone here inventing a compass to always point at the sun?
Compasses would only be useful for caves or dungeons, if they could exist.

[Candy]

Who says it would point at the Crystal? At the very least an optional live coordinate feature might be nice for avoiding getting lost or telling someone OOCly where you are should you choose to roleplay outside of a town. It'd be a lot less annoying than typing /pos ad nauseum. Even if there's no way to IC it it's better than some newbie with loads of potential for contributing to the community getting lost, frustrated, and giving up on the game forever.

[LigH]

Meh. I should have started a completely new thread. Do we have no other problems? No, compass here, compass there...