Creating alrealy lvled alts

[Bonifarzia]

I think it will be okay to allow further training for such characters.
I doubt this would interfere much with player strategies to reach high end characters, since those starting stats should really differ significantly from both, untrained alts and characters with high end skills. Moderate abilities are probably useful already.

[Chessire]

That may be true but remember we are aiming on helping roleplayers that cannot level up a character in one night just to play a scenario and nothing more. A moderately trained alt may be fine but also maybe a strong one is needed. And by not allowing to level up these alts after creation power-levelers are deprived of a short route to maxing stats and skills.
Actually there may as well be a limit on how many levels an alt can get on certain areas (for ex, cannot max more than one skill if any, cannot have more than 2 skills above 100, cannot have more than 2 stats maxed etc).

[Phage]

Interesting idea!

I have spent a lot of time to level more than one alt to a stage acceptable to my needs, to fulfill its requirements for correspondant RP desire - having started to play several alts at once for getting them to a certain stage, merely to maintain the curtain at its later event. Back in the days I had supplied numerous alts with Winch-access, only for being able to entertain befriended ones within the according area in an according setting.

That was back in the time. I just wondered to give PS another try.

I have to start in the sewers, try to figure out which of the beast ones to kill first, I do so, I step to the next ones, the great big one goal of accessing Winch-access on my mind, far away it is.. - of course I could just use my old character, but then one char got a history.

Chiming in: Make previously acquired levels transferable to another char, even to that price of subtracting (read: deleting) those same levels off that old char.
Seriously, that will never happen, will it?

[Aiwendil]

To give this post a right to exist: Just give those alts a limited "lifespan"...like after 500 hours you can't log in with them anymore. More then enough time to finish almost any RP...but for too less for people PLing.

Now to the real reason for this post:

I just wondered to give PS another try.

Masochist ;). But anyway how are you?

...- of course I could just use my old character, but then one char got a history.

But some chars would be ancient history and nobody nowadays remembers them. And hey...no matter what char you use....now they are all almost untrained again. Have fun with the new stats/skill limits.

[novacadian]

@ Novacanadian: I haven't had the chance to play DnD online or as a board game before so I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say by this post. Could you please post again explaining without the DnD terminology?

Some off thread reading if it was mention of the MUD which was alien to you. 

 M.U.D.

MUD Wizards

The odds are against the survival of a 1st level character in an average RPG Table game world unless the GM is just one of those that caters to players instead of the dice. To me, a fun range of character to play is from 1st to 5th level characters. Some have argued that Gandolf the Grey was about a 5th level Mage in D&D. A lot of dice rolls. A RPG Table game hero normally carries the proof; in stories of incredible luck or the scars.

- Nova

[Talad]

It's quite some time I am thinking to this feature. What I would like to have are roleplay characters, created and used only for roleplay. At char creation you will select traits. stats, skills and items with certain limitations on total ranks (example total 500 ranks and not more than 120 on a single skill) and certain limitations on item strength (like high quality but not magical). They will not be able to gain exp or raise their skills/stats in any way also they will not be able to trade items with other players nor drop their items ( will be used just within the char inventory). selling items will give no money, buying will have no cost.

Few important open points:
- should everyone be allowed to create such new chars at anytime or not (I 'm more in favor of yes)
- should we prevent the ability to do quests (I'm in favor of yes)
- what about the restricted areas like the winch, should they get access? This will not be easy to have, unless we create a list in char creation and they select the ones to have access.
- will this spoil the game for people, so at the end they will play less?
- abuse: create a char to win tournaments. Impersonate a guard while you are not. Cast healing spells on your main char in combat to buff him and PL even harder.

[Aramara Meibi]

would these char's be able to cast spells at all? without access to quests they will have no access to glyphs.

also the dropping of items is usually pretty necessary in RP, especially player created RP items such as books which aren't books but symbols for some object that doesn't exist in game.

[Talad]

They choose the items at char creation including glyphs.

I understand the drop problem, then we can allow drop, but those items will not be pickable by others.

[Oronec]

- should we prevent the ability to do quests (I'm in favor of yes)

I've actually felt that quests have helped with my role play - as a new player way back when and even now. It gives you a feel for atmosphere, possible personalities and behaviour, lore, races, laws, the way factions interact - everything to do with the game. It's like the IG wikipedia. Perhaps quests can be there for the sake of...learning how to 'get in character' and role-play... If that makes any sense.

- what about the restricted areas like the winch, should they get access? This will not be easy to have, unless we create a list in char creation and they select the ones to have access.

Maybe if your character or their parents hold an occupation/faction that would require/permit entry to said areas, they'd get them automatically unlocked.

Just my thoughts.

[Dannae]

Maybe another possible solution.... allow players to make a char. that they have the ability to rename and even change race of at their whim. The char. will always retain all possessions and stats achieved. No idea how doable this would be, but just an idea.

The character could have an invisible name by which the database keeps track of it and possibly not even show a name in game other than what a player might put in the descrip. Seems like this would be easier than making a special char. with all sorts of restrictions. I'm guessing the hardest part would be making it possible for the player to change races. If so, forget that and just make the suggested name changing ability and the player can make alts for each race needed.

[Aiwendil]

Not that it probably will affect me but still putting down my thoughts on it here:

Dropping of items is absolutely necessary for almost every RP.
The same for trading. Not only to be able to order drinks for a whole group and give a drink to each one later but also to offer payment for jobs you offer or exchanging books with infos.

Yes, everyone should be able to create such a char. I was first thinking if a time limit like for the advisor channel might be acceptable...but then realized that this would make it impossible to just create a new account for a new RP char. I don't think it would be very nice if you have no more char slots on your current account but need another RP char...and then have to play 30 hours on a new account only to be able to create on.

Quests? Not needed in my view...I can't really see any advantage in allowing RP chars doing them...but also can't see any disadvantages.

Restricted Areas: No question there...every RP char should have full access to ALL restricted areas...no matter what is chosen at the char creation. It are RP chars...people playing them should be capable to RP and only go to the areas suitable for that char. As you can't say how a RP turns out disallowing access to the BF temple for all times is a far bigger problem than the players creating a RP char just to see it once.

Spoil the game? Why does nobody ever ask how all the level 200 in magic and weapons and armor and everything chars insisting on them being the strongest and unbeatable spoil the fun for others?. Seriously...yes, some people will complain, can't be helped. The chance of solving this conflict by offering different servers for the individual player's needs is long gone.

Abuse: Almost everything can be abused in some way. But I think it's easy to prevent almost every kind of abuse. First off...those chars don't need to have the same label color. With a slightly different label color it's visible for everyone what chars aren't "ordinary" chars...and everyone can decide if he/she wants to play with that char. Impersonating guards is and was always godmodding...I know PS has no rules against this....but the community can deal with this by their own means (meaning /ignore). For the casting of spells...ahm...please just disallow casting of any magic for those chars. Magic can be RPed what allows even far more creative ways for it. The spells and their effects usually disrupt any RP more than help it.

The buying and selling for nothing is a pretty nice idea...but allowing trading between all chars is far more important than this one. And I can't think of a way to have both without making it exploitable. The same for the items right from the start...if it prevents trading it shouldn't be done. Rather I would prefer a solution that allows easy item and money transfer to these chars even from chars on the same account. It are RP chars...the players should decide themselves how much money they have available and what items they need.

Having all items dropped by those chars seen a "fixed/locked" items would be even a great help for any RP...but I fear it can be easily misused again. Imagine someone creating a RP char just to do some swearword apple-art on the plaza.

Some further limitations which I think are not problem for those chars..maybe even help a bit:

• Disallow them to do any PVE battles (No attacking of monsters). Not needed for RP at all. I see no advantage to allow this to RP chars
• PVP...good question. My opinion is of course it should be disallowed it as well...but here I have to admit that interaction between player chars is of course helping RP and that there are players who see PVP as valid RP.
• No mining, crafting, cooking for those chars. Again unnecessary for RP...can just be played out in text. And disallowing it will prevent others from yelling "abuse".

And some nice to have things:

• Extended shopping...like making a lot more stuff available for buying for those chars. All crafted and cooked items could be available for buying for those chars (with quality 1, doubt anyone would complain they spoil the fun and work of others then).
• Also these chars should already start with all available mounts and pets. Again up to the player which he wants to make use of.

So in general...trading and dropping are a must for RP. Preventing abuse by disallow those options is not very convenient. I think it's better to just disallow all actions that could lead to "spoiled" items.


So, that's about what was suggested. Now how I think it should be done:

Forget about special RP chars. Allow something like RP-instances. I mean...give players some mechanics like the guild mechanics to create a "player event group". Within this group some player can get "local" GM rights to organize the RP. They can create items, fix items on the floor, change skills of all other involved players, spawn monsters, /impersonate, change names...But here comes the point: All their actions only influence other players in the same RP group. If they change the sword skill of one char to 200 it will only have an effect in PVP against other players in the group or monsters spawned by the group GMs. If they create a sword item it can be only used against players in the group...even only seen by those if equipped. Spawned monsters are only visible to the group as well..all other players can't see them. If a player in that group got it's crafting skill raised by a group GM and creates a new weapon it gets two sets of stats. One set with the normal skills of that char which is used in interactions outside of the group (and for the selling price) and another set that is only valid within the group. RP group items can be only traded within the group (Okay, in fact with the crafter example it could be even traded outside of the group with its ordinary stats but once it gets back in the hands of a char inside the group get its group stats back).

Of course player should be able to join more than one of such RP groups. Joining and leaving such a RP group should be possible at any time. And once the RP group is disbanded everything created by the local GMs should disappear again. It's up to a player if he wants to join one of these groups and if he trusts the group GMs to give him some fun. It could need official GM approval to be allowed to form such a group in the first place.

Do I think this will get implemented: Lol, of course not. Do I think it's possible: yes, but it would required some major changes. The database would need a lot of restructuring to allow "instancing"/"shadowing" of items and char skills, the server would need a lot more checks but I think it should be possible in general without creating an environment that can be "abused". I think it could be even implemented step by step..like first only creating such a RP group mechanic and allowing giving out a right to "/impersonate" to a few within that group.

[novacadian]

If there is a problem creating a well developed alt then it seems to me that it would be better, for the ongoing development of the game, that character development be made easier, somehow, rather than making a sub-class of character types.  Such a sub-class of the character type will only increase the divide between those who use game mechanics and those which decry it. It will also reinforce the old adage of the PS players base; that it consists of 15 players and all their alts.

One big reason that such alts are required at the moment is the present lower player base. This proposal will not bring new players. Although the change would perhaps help RPs in the immediate; in my opinion; it would have a negative long term effect; by creating a greater divide between developed characters and strictly RP ones.

My character is mid-range in development; so my thoughts do not come from a maniacal power leveller. However to introduce such a sub-class of characters which is being talked of here would have me rethink my commitment to the game.

- Nova

[Aramara Meibi]

how about this compromise:

the items given to the character at its creation CAN NOT be traded or dropped.

any items gained during game play CAN be traded or dropped.

[novacadian]

After looking back to the OP it is still not clear to me why the so called developed alt cannot simply be Rped to have the stats. Could someone explain please or point me if it has been explained already?

Thanks,

- Nova

[Chessire]

...

Few important open points:
- should everyone be allowed to create such new chars at anytime or not (I 'm more in favor of yes)
- should we prevent the ability to do quests (I'm in favor of yes)
- what about the restricted areas like the winch, should they get access? This will not be easy to have, unless we create a list in char creation and they select the ones to have access.
- will this spoil the game for people, so at the end they will play less?
- abuse: create a char to win tournaments. Impersonate a guard while you are not. Cast healing spells on your main char in combat to buff him and PL even harder.

I think having everyone able to create such an alt anytime can actually cause problems since players will be able to know advanced skills, spells and have closed areas revealed at a very early stage. It won't be good to give a new player the chance to have all of the game's secrets revealed from the very beginning. So perhaps this could be restricted to accounts with some hours of gameplay already running, I don't know if its possible to measure that at the moment. Those who play for a long time already, know about the several kinds of spells, combat skills, mounts and locked areas as the winch. They just can't repeat the procedure of obtaining all this for every alt, or even spend days to obtain them on their main instead of roleplaying.
So, give a player the chance to discover the game by themselves, then let them create alts. And maybe the limit of the alt's skills could also rise with longer playing time.

But abusing the alts to win tournaments or other rewards I think it can be prevented since it will be easy to have the character marked as "alt" in the character description and have him excluded from any tournaments. Or even let them participate if the players organizing the tournament wish to do so.

About abusing the alts to powerlevel I'm afraid I don't have an answer... Perhaps when AI will be more advanced a solution will appear (for ex, npcs could always have a great dmg bonus over alts and agress them in priority, thus making it pretty tough for the person running the two clients). Also, is there a way to have a zero drop rate for an alt?

After looking back to the OP it is still not clear to me why the so called developed alt cannot simply be Rped to have the stats. Could someone explain please or point me if it has been explained already?

The point is being able to use the game mechanics in RP, as well as having certain objects, accessing areas etc. This might not seem like a big deal at the moment but the combat system will not always be as boring as now. The game is already being enriched in such content.