Ugh...okay...a constructive post from me.
First off I get the impression this thread starts to mess kind of different situations, making it hard to understand what everyone means. For sure I shouldn't be taken as the ordinary new player. My first post was written for a char who couldn't do the tutorial (Yeah...okay..I could...just never thought of asking a GM to move me there. Probably I'm not the only one not thinking of this). And as a player I don't think I'm a good example for the usual PS player. I don't have the slightest interest in fighting, mining or crafting. Those tasks are far too boring for my taste. I know the locations of most NPCs and cities, don't get lost in the sewers and have a basic understanding of most game mechanics. All I want is a char that can interact with some others in game, have some basic equipment for RP purposes and enough money left to buy drinks and books. In the past it was pretty easy to achieve this...nowadays it isn't anymore. That's basically what my first post is about.
Now to the started discussion about making the game more welcoming for new players. Here I think it's important to make a difference between the ways a new char can start.
1. Complete new player with a new char starting in the tutorial.The said 20 minutes seems to indicate that a lot of those don't even leave the tutorial. Now I have to get into assumptions as it's been a few years since I was such a player and PS was a lot different back then (like no tutorial at all and maybe every tenth rat dropped loot for 4 tria). What could makes so many people leave the game?
For the start the amount of text. No matter how you look at it, PS requires people to read. Most others games don't have such a requirement anymore. Not sure if the NPC voices help there at all as it still takes a lot of time just to figure out what the game wants from you (Also the first window you see in game is the hint window with a wall of text). And sorry, no solution suggestion for this...mainly because I don't care about people unwilling to spend time for reading in a RP game. If such people quite I think the tutorial served it's purpose. (Yeah, I know, I shouldn't forget the people on ezpc...they have a right to exists also ;). So lets follow my goal of making a constructive post. Get rid of any explanations about game mechanics in the tutorial, remove the tutorial on EZPC completely and only keep the parts on RP for laanx. Then make a video (better several on different topics) showing the use of the mechanics in action with voice comments and link them right next to the game download in the main page, put links to them in the topic of #planeshift and of course put an OOC hint in the first dialog of the remaining tutorial pointing to these videos.)
Okay...there is a player who actually reads game dialogs and still keeps on trying. Next obstacle...the interface. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot about the PS interface. But again..as a new player it's very, very clumsy and confusing. Setting up all basic shortcuts needed for fluid gameplay needs some experience first and takes a lot of time. Recent question from the help channel: "xxx asks: sorry XD uh brand new i got most things figured out just how do you sheathe weapons?". What should I answer there? My answer was: "Sorry, you can't do that easily with one command yet. The normal way is to just unequip them in the inventory <i>. If you start feeling a bit more comfortable in game you can make a shortcut doing that for you". Yeah...I took the easy way out there. Explaining how to create shortcuts in PS to a new player is not an easy task. Again videos about using the interface might help there. (And of course the best solution would be the ability to execute macros send by the server in a predefined, local sandbox in game to show the player how it is done). Oh..and having more default shortcuts right from the start won't help either...can't think of a general purpose shortcut handling all situations of "sheathing weapons". A good start to get into this problem is the help system update coming in the next version. Pictures within the help system are probably already very helpful (That is if people notice the ?-Icon in the main tool bar at all...this one maybe also needs more "promotion". How about a flashing red "?" for the first 10 hours of an account? ;) ).
Fine, the player was able to navigate through the tutorial until he/she faces the rat fighting challenge. And here we have a real problem. Create a kran, quick option Knight, and you slay the rat in 2 seconds...omg, how boring is that. Create a custom diaboli and you might end up with a char with 28 STR and can go to dinner while your char keeps on hitting the rat...even more boring. I know I'm in no position to judge on this part of PS as I think combat is among the most boring stuff in any mmorpg. But it seems everybody else sees this very different and combat is always among the first things people want to do in a mmorpg. And now your first encounter with the PS combat system turns out like this. Easy to understand why some people are not that fond of playing anymore afterwards. I know it's impossible to make those rats decent enemies for every starting char. So my suggestion would be to change the tutorial to make this flaw less obvious. Remove the rat fighting as necessary step for the tutorial. Then after the player finished the tutorial tell her/him she/he can be either teleported right away into the game or help the NPCs in the tutorial out a bit by cleaning the town of some rats. Of course the player should be able to end his rat hunt at any point and teleport to game.
Not enough "action". A lot people want a game like "Diablo". Of course they leave PS again if they couldn't kill something withing the first 5 minutes. A lot people don't care about complicated crafting systems, they want to be able to make a new sword with one click without having to deal with unreadable crafting books and several steps to get to their goal. While I think nothing should be done about this in game as PS has a different target audience I think it's the fault of the official webpage to lure those people in game in the first place. No, it's not a good idea to get as many people as possible, even if you already know they won't like the game. You will only get people ranting about PS on other webpages, keeping others from even trying the game. Make clear in the game description on the official page that this game aims for a complex crafting system, that combat is not the major part of the game and that it is still a pre-alpha version. And with "clear" I mean this should be written in bold letters in a huge font on the mainpage..not some subpage. It should be the first a person reads there. Oh..and while at it...make also clear it's no "generation-twitter" 144 letters game.
Graphic problems. Again...people are used to shiny graphics even in free games. If you run already into several graphic bugs in the tutorial that's a big turn off. And the graphics of PS can't be really called "up-to-date". So I think it's normal that people with recent hardware turn all graphic options to maximum. Give them some hints of functions causing problems. For example the PS launcher should have "Enable Bloom: [] (This option is still experimental and off by default)".
2. New player after the tutorialThe game is overwhelming at first. Sure, you have a generic map (I think) and the letter with hints about NPCs now...but you still have not the slightest clue what to do or where to go...even where you are. Come on...the first week I was able to get lost on the plaza looking for the entrance to the sewers. While I think this is not bad and it's part of the game to figure out your environment that's also something important to keep in mind if you say "But quests give hints about who to go next to now". Ahm, sorry, if the name is not Harnquist no new player will be able to make use of a name for the first weeks. If you don't believe me ask a new player what town he currently is in. A "Meet Levrus in the woods outside of Hydlaa" won't help any new player. Quest chains in general are a pretty bad idea for a game like PS in my view. Those are nice for games with a map, a marker pointing to the place to run next and a clear "storyline" one can follow, but not for an open (sandbox) game as PS. While I can see that some quests make only sense after doing some others first the current way of handling this is terrible. If you insist on those stupid chains make at least sure that NPCs don't say nothing if you haven't met the prerequisite for their quest. Make them say things like this..."I'm sorry, I can only entrust people with some education from Levrus with this task." or "I really appreciate your offer for help, but to finish this task you will need a Derghir bell." to give players a hint there is a quest available and even how to unlock it.
Next problem..tria and PPs. I make no real difference there as in the end both are the same for me. PPs are needed for training, tria are mostly needed for training..in fact I don't understand why having two different "currencies" for the same task. And before you say tria are needed for weapons and quests also please think about the percentage of tria you spend on items and compare it to the percentage you spend on training...so I guess we can just neglect the 1% on items. It was promised for years the crappy PPs system will be abandoned and I can't get why it was never done. Needing only to regulate tria to balance the system sounds a lot easier for me. But how to gather both? Most people probably know another mmorpg so the answer is clear..they will go and look for something to fight. As PS is a open world this is already a difficult task as there is no real indicator how strong monsters are (yes, I know...monsters closer to Hydlaa are meant to be weaker than the ones further away...tell that the Dlayos in the Arena). But lets say the player found some monsters suitable for her/him (maybe with the help of another player)...so she/he slays those monsters for hours and stacks up some loot and a few PPs (And yes...it are really not enough PPs for fighting...ahm...for any action in PS), what to do now. You have no clue where to find the trainer you want..and even less of a clue where to sell your loot. Suggestion: Put merchants for every kind of loot available from monsters in the arena and make it obvious they are merchantes even without the player having to talk to them. Put a typical merchant sign behind every NPC merchant showing what kind of merchant it is. For the trainers I have no real suggestion...except maybe keep on telling the player through the whole tutorial it's normal and wanted that he/she asks other players (Not just once...have every NPC in the tutorial say there is always a good chance to get more infos on this topic from other player characters). Now to the completely unbalanced PP rewards. Sorry, the new system that PPs rewards depend on your stats is...stupid and very, very broken. Some new players need minutes to kill a easy monster to get 1-3 PPs then...while "Aiwendil" can kill a Dlayo in a bit more than a minute with 17 Energy arrows under Drakku's Curse and get 1250 PPs!!! The problem is the same as with the 5 minute rats...such a system can't be done right for all chars. You can't prevent a char with all stats 200 and crystal way 150...even with Dakkru's curse it's still easy for such a char to slay some dlayos. I never got what was the big problem with the old "easy monsters gives 0.5 PPs while Dlayo gives 40 PPs" system. Of course it had some balance issues as well...but in my view those are easier to overcome than the much bigger ones in the current system. Suggestion: Sorry, I have none. As I doubt this stupid system will be abandoned again it can be only about fixing this system. And that is impossible in my view...you can't do it right for all chars. Sure, let's include skills in the PP calculation too...so that a char focusing in crafting in the past is unable to ever learn using a weapon afterwards. But as we talk about new chars only there...at least give them ten times the amount of PPs they get right now. The tria site is a bit better...though still too annoying to rely on it. Loot is far more common now and sells for a better price. Here I have to assume that it will get annoying for higher level chars only.
Another way to deal, at least with the tria problem is making people aware that fighting is not the only thing you can do in PS. I read so many comments tria are no problem as you can quickly gain some by mining, crafting, cooking..whatever. But people saying this forget what it means to be a new player. Mining needs knowledge of the mining locations and prices. Crafting needs some quests for the books and knowledge about the materials needed. These are no things any new player can do within the first few days..and that's the timespan we talk about here. So maybe it's worth thinking about some very easy crafting tasks that can be done without the books and only need material easily gathered close by. Of course these tasks shouldn't pay off that well...but enough for people just starting the game. (and keep in mind who suggested this...I just suggested the most boring task imaginable for new players ;))
3. Alts starting without a tutorial and any inventoryGive me quests without fighting, crafting, mining, cooking and running all over Yliakum back! There easily used to be 20 such quests in hydlaa right from the start in the past.
But in general I think this is less of a problem...was only one for me. When I left I gave away most of my items and money to remaining players...so had to deal with starting a new RP char without the possibility to just hand him 100K from my main char.
Okay..thinking about it, it might be still a big deal for people using game mechanics. Without the tutorial you also start without any PPs. So such chars, despite the fact they can get money from more developed chars already will still face the problem to get enough PPs to train some basic skills. Quests are not much of a help there as I pointed out most already need some basic skills. And keep in mind if you suggest quests needing to mine for some ores that this will already take away some earned PPs for the mining training...can't really see how to get enough PPs for the first few levels of combat training by quests. So these chars are kind of stuck with combat at the start...what can take a long time without any weapons (okay, can be again aquired from a more trained char) and skills.
Suggestion: Already mentioned it...but will repeat it again: Put
all new chars in the tutorial, no matter if another char of that account already completed it. The tutorial can be left at any point now so I can't see why not give the player the choice if she/he wants to do it again.
I haven't done the current tutorial (please keep that in mind for everything I said here...I just assumed it didn't change that much in the last year) but in the past you ended up with enough PPs for two skills to train and more than 6K tria...that's a pretty nice start in my view.
pps seems to be a big issue. Perhaps a sliding scale that allows very undeveloped characters to gain extra pps than normal for a short time.
Assuming by "time" you really meant time. Not a good idea in my view...new players often do nothing that gets any PPs for hours while exploring the world. I would modify this suggestion to triple the first 1000" PPs or such.
Kikiris are easier to kill than rats with the sme amount of exp and all the kikiri loot sells for 60 trias, which is better than rats. Problem is the Kikiris are out in Oja. Maybe if we had some Kikiris hanging around outside of the Arena that might help some people then after Kikiris they could move to rats.
Having more "weak" monsters in Hydlaa indeed sounds like a good idea. But I still say it takes too long to earn tria and PPs. With the current max of 400 stats and 200 skills I really can't see why gaining PPs or tria should be limiting time factor for training. Only doing the practical training for a weapon skill above 100 will already take enough time to keep players busy PLing for months...not to mention the crafting skills.
@Mixo:
Yeah...that's why I wanted to make a difference between real new players and just new chars. I had a very different goal than you when starting this char. There was no need for me anymore to learn how to play PS and where to find what. The goal was to create a char I can use for a roleplay without spending days on boring quests or slaying monsters. The char probably won't be around for very long...so I see no point in dealing with all the boredom PS has to offer just to get to the fun part. But as you are a new player I'm well aware that you have different views on this...and it's good to see you having fun with PS.
@Bonifarzia
I phrased my concerns about your suggestion already above. In general I really think this system can't be made "fair" for everyone. But including skills in the calculation might really make it even more unfair for people concentration on crafting skills first and then only later get to combat skills...as they will receive far less PPs for the creatures they fight than if you do it the other way around.
* Aiwendil looks at the length of the text and grins. "Missed me?"
Edit:typos