Tazen and GM events

[Herihi]

I just wanted to add a new thread in here and talk about all the work Tazen is doing as a GM to make the game more fun.  If you support the events he runs and want more to happen post it here so Tazen and the others can see what a great job he is doing.  He just ran a wedding where players asked him to help out and be the priest.  He did an amazing job and made the RP far better then it would have.  What do all of you other players think about it?

[Candy]

I loved the casino events I was fortunate enough to catch.

I would also like to take this opportunity to remind the active roleplayers both that you don't have to be a GM to run a great event, and that you could easily miss out on a great event because you learned that it isn't a GM one.

[Herihi]

I agree, player events are really cool.  But there have been times I wished we could do a little bit more mechanics wise and that would be worked out with a GM helping to enrich the game play.

[Eardstapa]

aw Tazen you're the best, i did say i'd tell Talad.
i agree that GM involvement in player-run RPs has enormous fun potential! i must have missed those casino events, but this thread is a good start letting people know - will future events be on the calendar before they're actually run? or are they only impromptu?

[Herihi]

The ones Tazen runs can be both. He does ones almost every day that are done when players ask for that day, but he has also scheduled them as well.

[Timil Deeps]

Yeah, Tazen's events are lots of fun!  He's a definitely a Player's GM. I got a kick out of that ulber-hide slide Tazen and Herihi put together a short while back.

[Taya]

I've had great fun with his events, both when I've been lucky enough to be involved in the planning to some degree and when I've just stumbled into them. Main thing is that he's approachable and you can ask him to join in with things. He's also helped out with a couple of events I've run myself and given them that extra edge.

Now he just needs to move to a timezone that lets me take part in more of them!

[Sarva]

So that people are aware there are rules that GMs have to follow just like there are rules that players have to follow. One of those rules is that GMs are not allowed to be involved with player run events. The current rule, as stated in the GM Orientation guide re player events reads as follows.

Player-made Events

Players are allowed to organize events on their own, like duels, hunting sessions or even more complex stories they can role-play. GMs should not interfere with those events apart from the usual moderating work. In no case is a GM allowed to provide prizes for events created by players, or use GM command functions to help the set-up or development of the event.

This is done to avoid interfering with the PlaneShift world, to avoid unfair concessions to one player vs. another, and to have GMs dedicate time to running official events.


Now Talad and I have discussed one exception to the above rule. For larger player events, such as the Masquerade Ball, held at the end of last year, where the event is advertised on the event calendar, the event is open to all players and there are no conflicts with settings, then GMs can get approval to offer support for the event.

[Herihi]

What is the reasoning for the rule that a GM cannot get involved at all in player run RP?

[Sarva]

Herihi,

Guess you missed the line that answers your question

"This is done to avoid interfering with the PlaneShift world, to avoid unfair concessions to one player vs. another, and to have GMs dedicate time to running official events."

To expand on this GMs have to be very careful about giving the impression that they are playing favorites between the player base. If a GM gets involved in PLayer A's RP but for what ever reason doesn't have time to get involved in Player B's RP that can be perceived as a GM playing favorites, which can turn people off and lead to people leaving the game and posting bad reviews all over the place. Also GMs have to play the role of referees and are expected to enforce rules on all players equally. Again if GMs are perceived as having favorites then that can affect how other players view the punishments that are handed out, or not handed out.

In the case of the wedding I have to wonder how many players missed out on RP opportunities leading up to the wedding and at the wedding because a GM provided things that in other cases have been provided by player characters.  For example it would seem player character cooks missed out on the chance to provide food for the wedding. A player character priest/priestess missed out on getting to preform a wedding. Maybe a player character bard missed on performing at the wedding and the RP leading up to the wedding in getting hired or writing the music to be performed. It can cut both ways and maybe without a GM involvement there might have been more RP for more people, and isn't that what the game is suppose to be about is RP for the players?

[Herihi]

Hmm but does that apply to any GM interaction at all or just events? Are GMs not allowed to go into game at all then other then official GM events?

[Sarva]

GMs can bring their guard alts into game when they want to. Although GMs shouldn't bring in their guard alts into game just because a player has asked. If a player asks for a guard and the GM isn't busy with other duties then they can bring their guard in. Of course the guard has to maintain settings. Outside of  the guard alt the only other interaction GMs can have with players outside of official events is they can do impersonations of NPCs or sort of mood setting like doing an impersonation like "A warm breeze blows across the lake that <player name> is standing next to. As far as player characters are concerned there is no such thing as a GM so really players shouldn't be having interactions with GMs as the GM character, unless there is a major problem going on that needs to be dealt with quickly, ie faster action is needed than it takes for the GM to get their guard alt in to deal with the issue in an IC manner.

If GMs want to have more casual interaction with players then they always have the option to run a player character but GMs are suppose to keep the ID of any player characters they run secret so in theory players shouldn't know that the person they are talking to is an alt of a GM.

[Eardstapa]

Sarva, thanks for your responses, which make very valid points about GM responsibilities and equal and fair treatment of players. i uphold the reasoning and would not want to see any GM inadvertently give PS a bad name.

so let me just add concerning GM duties that i have not known Tazen to be slow to attend to petitions, in-game help, technical problems and/or bug fixes - i see this when i am in game - and maybe i speak especially for the GMT +8 and surrounding time zones - unless i could catch Venalan on, i used to have to wait days for petition replies. if, in addition to fulfilling these first duties of a GM, a GM's role in player-run RPs does not extend beyond moderating and impersonating NPCs, then i take it there should be no objection to his taking part. dare i say it should be encouraged, if he is willing?

certainly it is ideal for RP if players fill all the roles needed in any RP, but maybe like me some of us have been in-game when there are only a handful of RPers on or maybe like me some of us feel that RP could be just that much richer if the settings we're trying to play by - guards, octarchy, religions, for instance - could give us some 'play-back' too. to return to the original topic, i think Tazen tries to do some of this for the game, without bias. please don't penalise him for it; he is doing PS credit, just as the rest of you are by taking your roles seriously. we do appreciate it.

[Jilata]

I agree with what Eardstapa said. I don't know Tazen, but as it sounds he is doing something good for PS.

Sarva, I also understand that point about GM's and favorites. But in my opinion, I think that GM's helping out in events created by player can add to the game. We just don't have the ressources a GM has. For example we can't get our hands at certain objects like a stall for selling stuff. And there are a lot of things we have to work for to get so the RP has some actual objects. Like some locked box or so.

I was kinda surprised when I did some quests and just looked for fun if there is actually a model or if it is just a "bag". I think there are many objects which look nice but are never used as RP items because they are quest objects and needed for finishing a quest. And you can't get your hands on them unless you don't finish that quest.

I am not saying you should give one object a person and another doesn't get one, that would be favorism as you said it. But maybe make it accessible in general so that we don't especially need a GM for that?

[Eonwind]

Herihi,

Guess you missed the line that answers your question

"This is done to avoid interfering with the PlaneShift world, to avoid unfair concessions to one player vs. another, and to have GMs dedicate time to running official events."

To expand on this GMs have to be very careful about giving the impression that they are playing favorites between the player base. If a GM gets involved in PLayer A's RP but for what ever reason doesn't have time to get involved in Player B's RP that can be perceived as a GM playing favorites, which can turn people off and lead to people leaving the game and posting bad reviews all over the place. Also GMs have to play the role of referees and are expected to enforce rules on all players equally. Again if GMs are perceived as having favorites then that can affect how other players view the punishments that are handed out, or not handed out.

In the case of the wedding I have to wonder how many players missed out on RP opportunities leading up to the wedding and at the wedding because a GM provided things that in other cases have been provided by player characters.  For example it would seem player character cooks missed out on the chance to provide food for the wedding. A player character priest/priestess missed out on getting to preform a wedding. Maybe a player character bard missed on performing at the wedding and the RP leading up to the wedding in getting hired or writing the music to be performed. It can cut both ways and maybe without a GM involvement there might have been more RP for more people, and isn't that what the game is suppose to be about is RP for the players?

Sarva with all due respect I think you missed a point: players are supposed to do their own RP and their own game but without a bit of effort from the GMs the NPC are perceived like useless in-game objects, automatic item distributors and the PS world is less alive than it should be. Also players are not supposed to play the part of NPC in theory.
Of course there's no need to reward the players with fancy item, a cool RP is a good reward in my opinion.
Aside from that I say that most of the GM are not in my timezone and I missed so many casual events which were not planned (posted in the calendar) in advance; I don't complain for that and I think other players should not do that as well when the GM try to do their best when they do.
Of course I know GMs have many responsibilities and limited time like everyone else but GMs willing and available to make PS a living world should not be forbidden to do so.