[COMMUNITY] We're Remaking the tutorial so it’s fun and interesting thread

[Venalan]

Welcome to the ‘We're Remaking the tutorial so it’s fun and interesting thread’.

So something we will be doing over the next few months in between the other things we're working on is remaking the tutorial quests, if you haven’t done it you can see what you do here Tutorial_Walk_Through.

The reason for this is that it is the first taste that players get of the game and it is boring and uninteresting.

So what’s my overall plan?

Remove as much of the mechanics as I can from quests. You don’t need to tell players how to move, or how to interact with things in so much detail in the quests. It’s obvious and players aren’t that stupid. This means i will make the  quests me an introduction to the settings of PlaneShift and a real introduction to the game and where you have found yourself. Mechanics will be mixed in where fitting and the rest of it will be in on screen pop up messages triggered either by the end of the quest, or my walking certain points on the ground and then of course by a new and I hope better help file.

I will be including race specific and maybe gender specific responses.

I will be adding many more items to the tutorial, full sets of baking equipment, full sets of crafting equipment and other stalls with items on.. this is just to make the place more ‘alive’ and to give players more to go and click on.

I will be using proximity triggers so, for example, if you are sent to fight rats a popup will tell you about all the combat options.

We have discussed making the tutorial freely accessible so you can come and go and means we can link things the NPCs tell you to quests you do outside of the tutorial and you can be sent back in future quests (THIS IS TENTATIVE at best but an idea).


So the new overview...

Quest 1: Abelia, the baker is paid to welcome people to Hydlaa, either visitors or those feeling stone labyrinth invasions with a welcome gift of a selection of food stuffs.

What do you learn;
Where you are? – Ylakium, the 7 levels, the dome, Hydlaa.
Where you came from, the fact your race entered though a portal or was made by the gods and how long ago it was.
Who’s in control, the Octarchy and basic government set up rules and laws.

Other: some spattering of skills you can do and gives you a selection of food stuffs to get started.

Ends with her giving you a small snack for Neave, and off you go to her.

Onscreen popup – information about the basic windows and what they are, and text to point you to the help file for more detailed info.


Quest 2: Neave, the black smith makes weapons for the local garrison and teaches you about the crafting side of PS.

You give her the lunch and get talking
You learn about the skills, the trainers, who does what, about the other cites and trade routes.
You find out she is a crafter and gives you a repaired weapon that Ibhaar asks for.

Onscreen popup – Information about using containers and crafting mechanics and points you to the help file.



Quest 3: Ibhaar, the annoyed warrior sent to look after the hydlaa welcome post, teaches you about all the combat in PS.

You give the blade to Ibhaar and you learn about who he is.
You learn about combat and weapon and armor types, good places to train and what you should start killing
That he use to be station the bronze doors and that they protect from what is found in the stone lybrinth.
He offers you one of his old blades and you get to pick one, he then says there have been some rats about that really annoy him and sends you off to kill one if you want with your new weapon.
He also tells you about the different styles of combat Weapons Vs Magic and mutters some not very flattering things about Orphia which then means off you go to her.
If you kill a rat and return to him you will have the option of giving him the items you have looted for a  small reward.

Onscreen popup – information about the combat sections and stances and send you to the help file for more detailed info.


Quest 4: Orphia, the mage sent to help the injured new comers to Hydlaa and teaches you about magic and the ways.

You start by saying what Ibhaar said about her, and she laughs and just says it’s because he is stuck here and he would like to be off at the bronze doors.

She teaches you the basics about magic and the different Ways and Circles and asks what you think sounds most interesting. You answer and she then gives you a glyph for that way. She will also mention that you should start off by seeing Levrus if you are interested in following magic.

Onscreen popup – details about using glyphs and research spells and sends you to the help file for more details.

Quest 5: Xargon, the government official who looks after the welcome post.

He will officially welcome you to Hydlaa, and tell you in more details about what you can find and do, temple, tavern, smithy, arena, plaza, library etc...

Maybe give you a few items. ‘Letter from a friend’ or something equivalent.

You then get sent to Xenak,

Quest 6 a/b.

A, will be the ‘I wana skip the tutorial option’ but will say something alongs the lines of ‘Are you sure you want to enter Hydlaa without talking the the welcome staff, they have many things to give you and lots to tell you about living in Hydlaa that will make you start here much easier.’

B, Will be the ‘I have completed the tutorial option’ when he welcomes you to Hydlaa and off you go to play.


What you should bear in mind is that once I’m done writing all this up and as I've tried to indicate is that there will be a story of sorts that guides you from one NPC to the next, like it is now but will be settings heavy and not so much mechanic info. It will be made very clear many many times that the help file is where you need to go for details on the mechanics. These quests will also be covered in basic settings info, everything that I think the player should know and that I can get in and makes sense to say by the NPC.

Finally this is just a draft of what I am planning, what I would like to hear about is suggestions about how to make the tutorial more fun/better/interesting.

Do you like you the suggested path between npcs?
Would you do it differently?
Would you add more and make it really complex?
Would you like to see a simple intro to the game that pulls players in to they make it though the gate?
Do you love it the way it is and hope I don’t touch it at all?
Are there settings you think are vital to cover that I have explicitly mentioned?
Are there some items that a player should be given to make the first few hours of game player easier (they will get a weapon and glyph and lots of items of food)?
How long do you think it should take to complete all five quests?
Would more stalls and 'shops' make it looks more alive and interesting?
What about adding a mount so players can see we have them?
What props would help draw someone into the game?

[Jilata]

One thing which annoyed me in the current tutorial and I'd like to vanish:

The NPCs talk for too long.

Quest and learning how to do it is fine, but if they start talking for hours (I think you need more than 10 minutes for the tutorial right now), you get bored. Simple as that. You don't want to skip it because it might prove to be needed later on, but it just takes too long. So the quests should be shortened as much as possible.

About the rest, I'll be thinking about it.

[LigH]

It's good to see that there are people listening to Aiwendil, at least to the meaningful parts between the emotional rants.

And it's good to see that the game supports the features needed to be flexible in designing an interesting tutorial.

[Pakarro]

This is very good news!

And, I believe that a tutorial does not have to be short if it is interesting. When there is enough action and free room for the player, it will work nicely. I like the storyline 

One thing, please (this is also necessary throughout all quests.): Sometimes the breaks to read the text are incredibly long. Maybe some keypress (esc?) to continue talking without waiting for hours would be useful...

Thank you!

[Venalan]

It's good to see that there are people listening to Aiwendil, at least to the meaningful parts between the emotional rants.

I want to say that his latest rant had nothing todo with prompting me to post this about redoing the tutorial we have all known its been bad for ages. I've had this planned for ages and it got to the point I could sit and do bits of it so wanted player feed back and suggestions before getting tofar in to make sure what I think would make it fun and interesting others agree with.

Edit; re the talking lots... It's talking stuff atm thats boring. There will probably be as much in my version, I just want it to be interesting.

[Eonwind]

Venalan I think is a good idea to give out a starting pack for new players (at the tutorial end). The starting pack could be chosen by players, an example:

- I want to be a warrior starting pack: two pieces of armor and a couple of weapons, some tria, a few potions
- I want to be a mage starting pack: 2 basic glyphs, some tria, a few mana and health potions, a couple of light armour pieces and one light weapon
- I want to be hunter: 2 pieces of armour, one light weapon, one bow, 65+65 arrows, some tria a few potions
- I want to be a crafter/... : some tool (rock pick, hammer, ...), some basic material, like a few ores, some tria, a few potions

those are just drafts of course

What about adding a mount so players can see we have them? <-- good idea!

One last thing: I would allow to play the tutorial even to new char (they can always skip it with few click and it seems a good area to setup a char description before lending in game). Even char not meant to be trained can enjoy more tria, being able to buy the appropriate outfit to show in game. The second reason to enable this is more people will play the tutorial the more we'll get feedback and bugs and the chance to improve it even further.

[Mordaan]

Quest 1: Abelia
Other: some spattering of skills you can do and gives you a selection of food stuffs to get started.

Have her start off by giving you a free beer.  Now that will give a nice first impression.   

Seriously, and I am speaking about making a good first impression here, we could put Abelia behind a table (maybe just a crafting prep table will do), with some additional items on it like mugs, some bread, or other food items.  And though this is a map issue, I'd really like to see some signage in the tutorial.  Just a nice banner above Abelia saying "Welcome", or a sign clearly saying "Hydlaa Orientation Center"...or something.  It would really give players the sense they are being welcomed and there is an IC purpose for them being there.

One thing I think we can ALL agree upon is the tutorial needs some work.  It has been an idea floating around for a few months and I'm glad to see it get going.  Venalan: 

And this is also a good opportunity to point out that if you want to help out, you can always join the settings team.   

[LigH]

Thinking of the quite famous "good hospitality traditions" known from slavian (eastern-european)  countries, offering bread and salt? And I bet there are similar traditions in many other countries all around the world.

[Aiwendil]

It's good to see that there are people listening to Aiwendil, at least to the meaningful parts between the emotional rants.

I want to say that his latest rant had nothing todo ...

*sighs* "Emotional"? You have seen the arguments with Xillix Ligh...those were emotional! Or the complaining about Janner...but this didn't have much emotion at all. The only emotion I showed there was calling Talad an idiot and I still stand by that. But even worse...the same old story always again. If you write something not praising PS but pointing out some problems it's immediately a "rant". Did anyone of you ever hear of "criticism". No wonder the game doesn't really improve if nobody can write about it's weak points.

But lets get back on topic:
I got not much to say about the planned story linking the tutorial NPC..I just don't care. It's nice to see that more settings infos are planned in the tutorial but in general I think that's just a minor point.

But on the technical side I have some suggestions to make:

- Pop-up windows are...not always very helpful. Okay, not true..they can be always helpful, but that means the player has to read them. Please just think about it...how many games did you play where you read every single pop-up window in a tutorial? I can only speak from my own experience and that's that I at best skim through the first few lines of a tutorial pop-up and see if it's important. If I think it's not I pretty quickly close it as I want to play this new game and not read pop-ups. So, first suggestion, make sure you put the really important stuff in the first 4 lines of a pop-up. And second suggestion, which is even more important, add the text of all pop-ups to the in-game help as well so that players can look it up later again and doesn't have to read it right then (as right now it is the only possibility to read pop-ups). Also a "reset" button for pop-ups could be an idea..something that allows the "You received some fall damage"-pop-up to show up a second time for example. Or like all other games some buttons to scroll back to previous pop-ups.

- Others already brought it up but it's very important...make it possible to skip the waiting time for NPC text. I'm no native English speaker but even I had to wait all the time for the NPC to continue and it's damn annoying.

- About the idea to make tutorial quests take you outside the tutorial area? Ahm...seriously? While the idea sounds nice I see a huge downside with it. The quests in PS already now are mostly running around and now you want to make it like that right from the start? A tutorial should be as short as possible and not included minutes of only running. In general I would say the "forced" tutorial should take a max of 15 minutes (included NPC text time and running between them). Better add a lot of optional tutorials that can be done if the player wants (And here it would be nice again if a player could head back to the tutorial area much later again)

- Be careful with pop-up and quest conditions. Just meaning that mining for example is something very basic every player will probably face at some point. So if triggers that change the tutorial according to the players skills are introduced make sure that even those players that don't meet the requirements can at least listen to the lesson if they want. No "forced" skipping of tutorial parts for players that have no mining skills.

- Be careful to not leave out the mechanics too much. While I agree that stuff like movement doesn't have to be explained PS has some features that for sure need explaining. Shortcuts and chat commands for example. Almost all other mmorpgs have them as well...but you can play those games for months without ever needing them. Try playing PS for 2 hours without a chat command or self defined shortcut.

- If you add items to the map...have someone with a very low end computer test it first.

- Pop-ups again: Only text is boring...add images to them. Far better to have an "actual" mouth icon when explaining how to talk to NPCs than only describing it in text. PS has the ability to included icons in certain text widgets so get someone to change the pop-up widget to allow this as well.

- While we talk about icons/images. It is possible already right now for the settings team to include images in books. Make use of this and give the player a book describing the most common icons they face in PS and maybe some items. You can even make screenshots of certain actions and put them in books.

- Get a "demo-mode". Something where the client executes macros send by the server so that you can make a short demo on how to drag some ore in the furnace slots rather than just describe it in words.

- Get rid of the NPC voices. It's a "shiny" feature, yes...but it makes quick adjustments to the tutorial impossible. Without them it would be far less of a problem to just add a new part to the tutorial explaining the use of music sheets when those are released in game. NPC voices are something that can be done much later...when there are far less changes needed to quests and tutorial.


It's nice to see Venalan's motivation for this but at the moment I fear he still lacks the tools to make a really good tutorial. In my view those should be coded first so that a tutorial rewrite isn't necessary too soon again. On the other hand everything will be an improvement to the tutorial at the moment so maybe an intermediate step to a fully working tutorial isn't that bad at all.

[Talad]

Remember to review this as base for new tutorial remake:
http://194.116.72.94/pswiki/index.php?title=Tutorial_Improvement_Project

[Venalan]

@Aiwendil, i have a few responses for you.

Pop ups will be used to explain certain basics of the game but they are not very good at allowing lots of detail. I think I'll head them up with **READ IF YOU WANT TO LEARN ABOUT <TOPIC>** then if the player wants to read or not they know what they will be missing. Everything in the pop ups will also be included in a edit of the help file i will be making to match the tutorial once it is done.

Tutorial quests will be 100% limited to the tutorial, what i was making reference too was the possibility that you could revisit the tutorial at a later point for other quests, no real reason in not reusing this area later in the game. Bit of a waste if we don't reuse it.

The only thing like skill quest locks I've planed are race specific responses in reference to details like where they come from, how long they have been in Ylakium etc...

In regards to voices they will be gone from the tutorial as it might well evolve later and there is no point in making  anything so fixed as a dialog line until the tutorial is so complete it would be not worth making any further changes.

@ Talad

I've used that page a basis of my planning the new tutorial, npc settings, quest content, settings info to be given, additional props and other bits a pieces. There is however one impression i got from that page which I'm not going to develop in my remake for now.

This bit can be summed up with this line "The area has been reassigned to be (or outright created as) the regional assessment center for the Hydlaa region. The situation is critical, new waves of invasions coming from the Labyrinths".

With the game as it stands, there are no invasions from the stone labyrinths or anything even close to it. If you ignore that fact then there are also no stone labyrinth map(s) for you to explore and following on from that there aren't even any physical bronze door(s) for you to know where the entrances are.... So if we make the tutorial really heavy in regards to invasions, and the player(s) get into the game wanting to know about it and all the current players and npcs have nothing to say to you about it or any idea what these 'new waves of invasions' you are talking about are, that for me would a terrible way to introduce the game.

Because of this i have decided to scale it back, the stone labyrinth and all that stuff will be mentioned but not as a big overview for the tutorial. Once I've done this rework to add in a heavier reference to the labyrinth once the real in game world is more pointed in that direction would be easy.

------

As an end comment, all the talking with people I've done in game and on IRC about this new design every comment has been positive and ill be using a number of little things people have mentioned. So please, if anyone has ideas about interesting little things i should say or let people know from NPCs or add to the tutorial let me know here and I'll let you know if I'll steal your idea or not.

[LigH]

Aiwendil, you know the german proverb: "The tone makes the music". You already know that posts are probably deleted if they attack the people making the game, not the game as such. No matter how many people sometimes share your opinion about one or another staff member, the team doesn't want to read it publicly. Therefore, constructive criticizm has a better chance to survive if it avoids mentioning names... and that's the only piece I mean by "emotional rant". I won't deny that I ever had those too.

[bloodedIrishman]

Can players learn to duel in the tutorial? That would be fun

[Talad]

I've used that page a basis of my planning the new tutorial, npc settings, quest content, settings info to be given, additional props and other bits a pieces.

Perfect.

With the game as it stands, there are no invasions from the stone labyrinths or anything even close to it.

Well, we are pretty close to that, and I don't want to redo the tutorial a 3rd time anytime soon. Considering the effort required, it's better to put in the proper content right now. Let's discuss it internally.

[Aiwendil]

@LigH: Posts get deleted for everything the team doesn't like. The last post of me that was deleted was a well-meant advice for a new player. The only thing that could remotely resemble an attack on another person in that one was some teasing of Kull. Also the posts you called "rants" didn't really include any names...so my point stands: They are called rants because they criticize PS.

Back on topic...
I think Venalan made a great move by starting this public discussion about his plans. So now please don't take a step back again and have everything overruled by some internal discussions the community will never learn about.

Edit:
Btw, this form has a whole board for discussions like this...sadly it's never used.