Author Topic: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea  (Read 1373 times)

Galok

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PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« on: March 19, 2013, 12:31:08 pm »
I would like to suggest it is time for PlaneShift to move to a new phase in it's development:
- KickStarter :: http://www.kickstarter.com/ :: Kickstarter is a funding platform for creative projects.

http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Fund_Your_Dream_With_the_Perfect_Kickstarter_Pitch

What would any of us have to lose if the PS community put their heads together and come up with a KickStarter pitch to:

- Fund a release version of PlaneShift.
- Fund servers (hosting) and hardware for development.
- Fund permanent employment for a development team.
- Fund marketing.
- Fund production and sales of merchandise.
- Fund a business not just producing PlaneShift but other games too. You clearly have the skills.

PlaneShift can remain free if you like or free with premium but a full blown gaming development company could be formed, based on Talad's team's expertise.

This opportunity is new, because of KickStarter.

Galok


Cirerey

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 02:34:00 pm »
I would like to suggest it is time for PlaneShift to move to a new phase in it's development:
- KickStarter :: http://www.kickstarter.com/ :: Kickstarter is a funding platform for creative projects.

http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Fund_Your_Dream_With_the_Perfect_Kickstarter_Pitch

What would any of us have to lose if the PS community put their heads together and come up with a KickStarter pitch to:

- Fund a release version of PlaneShift.
- Fund servers (hosting) and hardware for development.
- Fund permanent employment for a development team.
- Fund marketing.
- Fund production and sales of merchandise.
- Fund a business not just producing PlaneShift but other games too. You clearly have the skills.

PlaneShift can remain free if you like or free with premium but a full blown gaming development company could be formed, based on Talad's team's expertise.

This opportunity is new, because of KickStarter.

Galok

As an alternative (not necessarily a better one) consider selling sponsorship ads on the loading screens.

Chessire

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 07:09:42 pm »
I would like to suggest it is time for PlaneShift to move to a new phase in it's development:
- KickStarter :: http://www.kickstarter.com/ :: Kickstarter is a funding platform for creative projects.

http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Fund_Your_Dream_With_the_Perfect_Kickstarter_Pitch

What would any of us have to lose if the PS community put their heads together and come up with a KickStarter pitch to:

- Fund a release version of PlaneShift.
- Fund servers (hosting) and hardware for development.
- Fund permanent employment for a development team.
- Fund marketing.
- Fund production and sales of merchandise.
- Fund a business not just producing PlaneShift but other games too. You clearly have the skills.

PlaneShift can remain free if you like or free with premium but a full blown gaming development company could be formed, based on Talad's team's expertise.

This opportunity is new, because of KickStarter.

Galok

As an alternative (not necessarily a better one) consider selling sponsorship ads on the loading screens.

I definitely would not like to see any kind of commercials on the game. It sounds like a disturbing idea.
@Galok: I don't know if kickstarter is out of the question but... funding business and sales of merchandise? I believe you are missing the point of this game and whatever the dev team stands for. The game cannot be sold or used commercially by its own license, because the main point of the project has always been providing a completely free game to the world. This isn't an ambitious project of young people that try their luck in game development, its a pretty old project developing slowly towards a clear goal that is not making money.

Galok

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 08:49:49 pm »

I started playing PS in 2004 and used to be so passionate about the game, I would evangelise to anyone I could. I've written some wiki pages and I run the webcam (I wrote the cam software and host the server). I've taken time to enter bugs in the bug tracker where they were all marked as: not-a-bug-but-a-feature :-)

At least one of my ideas has made it into the project: PS devs hung out on my IRC channel #logFarm and helped me test something I was developing: 'logFarm Gossip', a chat program. Within a month or two PlaneShift introduced a new feature called .... Gossip :-)

Many of the bugs I recognise from 2004, seem to persist; strange colours appearing on surfaces and maps, transparency bugs, very low frame rates in some areas, character graphic bugs, etc.

The modellers do a superb job; the character graphics and the buildings are beautiful but many of the grounds, fields, etc, are circa 1995.

Chessire, even after the best part of ten years, I still don't get it. You are right.

Chessire, you imply that PlaneShift earning money is bad, yet you were more than happy to accept my donation of fifty dollars a few years ago. I don't understand why it is better to hold out a begging-bowl, rather than actually make a product that can pay for it's self?

Well think of KickStarter as a really big begging-bowl.

PlaneShift gives a lot to us players but it takes a lot too. As a fan, pouring ideas and effort into PlaneShift really feels like a waste, because no matter the effort us old-timers put in, a low ceiling and the-developer-knows-best attitude, always puts us in our place.

Chessire

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 02:36:03 am »
Ok, firstly, sorry if I was a bit rash here. Its just I thought everyone was absolute on the "no selling the game" point.
I didn't say kickstarter was a bad idea, I said we can't sell PlaneShift or view it as merchandise whatsoever. Its practically impossible but also morally wrong. A big part of the game was made by developers that aren't here today and worked for free under the agreement the game will be provided to everyone for free.
I know for sure I decided to help also because I knew the players wouldn't have to pay for whatever I made. The whole point is making a good game for fun and giving it to the people to have fun with, not creating a product and selling it. Its an experiment that differs from all other games in the fact no commercial relations exist between the devs and the players. The efforts of the devs are never aimed to making money, only to making the game fun. This is impossible if they also need to think of funding the game through the players. If you take the non-commercial element away you have just another good game, that might go far but in fact its just another game in the lot.

Gilrond

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 05:56:40 am »
Kickstarter doesn't mandate the project to be commercial. It can fund many kinds of things, including open source development.

Galok

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 10:44:09 am »
Times change [1]

PlaneShift started out as a commercial product where it had goals and a vision specific to that commercial project.

Then, well over a decade ago, it changed to an almost polar opposite, into a free AND Open Source project with new goals and a new vision.

This new vision was possible because of a changing environment; the Internet, which meant an Open Source project could actually be distributed. Geographic location of software developers became irrelevant.

The 'PlaneShift Project Development Agreement' aside, the concept of Open Source has NEVER implied or stated that a project can not be commercial or charged for.

In fact the purpose of Open Source was to add a unique selling point by way of allowing the customer to modify a product's source code to better meet their needs. However the Open Source Agreement meant that those changes have to be given to the originator. Then if the originator appreciates them, she can add them to her product, where others who purchase it, would also benefit.

It is not immoral to sell an Open Source product.

IBM, Oracle, Google, Red Hat, to name but a few, make billions of euros from using and selling Open Source products.



Times change [2]

PlaneShift Developer Agreements that were written over a decade ago, WILL BE out of date now because of the nature of things technological.

If there is a concern that artists who donated art all that time ago, will not want their stuff included in a semi or fully commercial product, then replace that art.

I reckon if you contact these artists, they will be more than happy to allow their art to be used.

A new 'PlaneShift Project Development Agreement' is required for the development of a contemporary computer game.



Times change [3]

Talad, like Oliver Cromwell, will listen to his troops and appease them in order to keep their favour, for without their support how can he maintain his power?

However if he is not commanding and directing them for the greater good of PlaneShift, then he is just a figure head at the whim of his army.

The Internet, the nature of business and what constitutes a business has morphed considerably during PlaneShift's life time.

It is possible to maintain laudable development principles when developing software and make money.

The 'Donations' method has also changed and KickStarter is an example of that new method.

PlaneShift can not survive on players and developers alone, someone somewhere has to pay.



Times change [4]

What could PlaneShift charge for?

'Eternal Lands' offers decorative apparel. These items have no significance in game other than showing other players that they have supported the game by purchasing something for real money.

This wont make a lot but it might pay the annual costs of renting a server.

So what could KickStarter do?

It could fund: PlaneShift 2

PlaneShift Classic has a decade of legacy. PlaneShift Classic can continue on its path and vision but ...

PlaneShift 2 can start a-fresh and use contemporary (if not just alternative) technologies to power it; such as a different 3D engine for the PC and a Smart Phone version.

A KickStarter funded organisation would have focus, deadlines and dedicated full time staff.

Whether PlaneShift 2 is Open Source is irrelevant but it would not be a bad idea. Just ask: IBM, Oracle, Google and Red Hat.

Bonifarzia

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2013, 11:14:51 am »

Mhm, there are some quite amazing kickstarter projects like Oculus Rift or Project Eternity, but I am really not sure if that will work quite well for PlaneShift. Either way, it is hard to imagine that atomic blue is not aware of this concept, and it is really their decision what to do next. PlaneShift has been much about open source and only-free-to-play-content-enthusiasm, and this will probably remain.

Cairn

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2013, 09:07:06 pm »
It's all about the marketing. If Talad/Team can make it sound great, people will fund it. Kickstarter has tons of stupid projects that get funded, we can make a good one get funded. Not too hard.
I regret to announce that this is the end.

I bid you all a very fond farewell

Ebonwumon

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 11:12:32 pm »
I think the point is being missed here: this is a free game, being developed in free time and I don't think anyone wants that to change.

Doing a kickstarter is the equivalent of an IPO, suddenly you're accountable to all those investors who bet on you and want to see a return. What if the game tanks and fails? What if all the contributors want x feature implemented then moan because they paid money and the game isn't going in the direction they want. Those are all problems with kickstarter and I absolutely do not think that's the way to go. Sponsorship and the status quo seems to be, for now, the best course of action.


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steuben

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2013, 12:25:14 am »
maybe it is time for merchandising. where the real money from the movie ^H^H^H^H^H the game is made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQEVgbMqq7o

hehehe ps the flame thrower. the kids will love that one.
may laanx frighten the shadow from my path.
hardly because the shadow built the lexx.
the shadow will frighten laanx from my path.

Sajut

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2013, 12:25:57 am »
I think you don't need kickstarter to "crowdfund" a server.
There is already a Donation-Button on planeshift.it so why don't use this donations or let the people choose the application while donating.

Or you can find some people willing to share the expenses for at least one year ;) 

Talad

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2013, 03:28:50 pm »
Hi,
I've split the topic about kickstarter from the original one of server hosting, as those are two separate ones. You cannot use Kickstarter to get a server.

About Kickstarter I had the idea already some time ago to use it for specific projects, for example "improve all chars and remake animations", I think it can be funded with about 4000-6000$ and when we get the money we can just hire an animator.

There are plenty of other possibile projects to crowdfund, and we are actually evaluating if this is a good idea. As usual it will require time/effort to put up a kickstarter project.

Few comments on the license/opensource discussion. We have no "philosophical" problems in getting money through ads or merchandise or crowdfunding, we just want the game to remain free for players and open source in the engine side.


Candy

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Re: PlaneShift Kickstarter idea
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2013, 07:12:59 am »
I'm all for donating for specific projects we want to see done (all the models of both genders, anyone?) - but it seems to me making a campaign for this with the donation feature we already have would do the trick.
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