Author Topic: Re: Ideas for Events  (Read 10735 times)

Volki

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2013, 06:25:11 am »
Illysia: can't come up with valid, mature argument, so accuses players with different views of fighting.

The point of forums is to allow people to argue their points. You are making this an emotional matter. I am giving you a typical forum discussion, and you are twisting it and throwing it in my face. I'm done trying to help since you can't seem to argue your point without becoming personal. Please don't assume that because I disagree with your ideas that I dislike you, or whatever it is you believe. And don't you dare think for one second that you can post an idea without someone disagreeing. If you don't like it, stop posting on forums.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Illysia

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2013, 06:37:44 am »
And that Volki is part of the problem. A discussion does not equal an argument. I understand that you are trying be helpful but the way you are doing it is trialsome and I have no extra patience or energy for hassling with you. There is nothing to discuss at this point. I do not agree with you and actually I don't HAVE to justify that to you. I disagree with people without it never becoming an argument all the time... I have no problem with disagreements but I AM NOT struggling with you on this. I actually don't have to answer for a blessed thing to you or bow to your opinion. The sooner you accept this the better.

Let me pass on two life lessons that will serve you well. One, listening to someone is not to be confused with obeying. Listening to you does not mean I have to do what you say. Two, explaining yourself is not a guarantee that anyone will agree with you. Look at the years of forum dissertations I've done of the years... case in point.

If you don't like what I am doing, do like the other people who don't care, find another part of the forum. That is being mature.

Volki

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2013, 07:04:51 am »
Sorry, but LOL. I'm guessing this is the only forum you use. That would not fly anywhere else. Respect other people, hear their arguments, and get off your high horse.

Arguments make up a discussion. You're not defending yourself. You're getting personal, insulting me as a person, instead of hearing my opinion and creating a counter argument. Congratulations, you've lost all respect from me.

I'm going to ignore this thread for now. Feel free to have the last word, as I assume you will. But now that I've said that, maybe you won't... Now that I've said that, maybe you will! Who knows, will Illysia feel the need to throw in one last quip?
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Illysia

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2013, 07:06:41 am »
Yes... feel better now? ;)

Rigwyn

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2013, 07:07:27 am »
* Rigwyn sits down with a bowl of popcorn to watch the fight.


:)

Illysia

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2013, 07:09:15 am »
*pours salted evil on the popcorn*

I assume butter won't do.

Rigwyn

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2013, 07:39:11 am »
Deciding from the beginning that at the end of the event the monster will be vanquished is not railroading necessarily.

Yeah... that's exactly what railroading is. You lay down the track and as a result, you predetermine the path of the train.  Now that this has been done, any choice that deviates from the tracks is wrong or incorrect. It puts a limit on the player's freedom and they end up making their characters do what they think the runner expects them to do. If I'm going to imply to players that they should follow a certain path, then I might as well just play for them - and *correctly* too.

I don't think anyone really intends to do this, but this is what ends up happening.

The plot ideas are all fine but some assume a certain response to the conflict and outcome. If you remove all assumptions about how players will respond and how it will end and let players know that you are flexible enough that they can do as their character would, then you'll have a far more natural RP that's fun for everyone.

If you see that your idea can be trashed or broken by a player who has terribly different ideas ( assuming there is no meta gaming at play ), then perhaps your plan is too strict or too fragile. Perhaps you need to think it through a bit more.



bilbous

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2013, 08:33:11 am »
Some people like to follow the cruise director around and others like to wander away to explore on their own.
more news and breaking stories at 11

Illysia

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2013, 08:43:15 am »
While your basic points are not wrong you're extrapolating farther than these ideas are actually going. The destination is set the path is not. Many paths lead to the same end and the event is no more trashed because someone did something differently than the Ball was ruined because how players responded more or less made the plot irrelevant. The idea is give people something to do and a reason to be in game not to try and explore every single what-if in one event. To be fair, the larger the event the less likely you are to even have a wildly out there solution since most people will go with what the group decides even if a wild one occurs to them.

However there are even problems with assuming that an RP always has to be fully open ended and that you always have to take on the grand sum total of all possibility even when you try to plan even the slightest RP action. It makes it feel too burdensome to try to run events since you have to try to account for everything. Too much is expected for anyone that even attempts an event. It's why it's so burdensome even for you to run events. You make it so that it requires more of you than it needs to and it burns you out if you don't have enough return. You take on way more effort than you will get back. If nothing else, balance the equation. ;) Effort put in = RP return you can realistically expect for your investment.

You'd see more events overall if running events wasn't made like carrying Atlas' load. Not to mention, you'd see more variety because people wouldn't stick by the "safe" ideas and do mostly the same events over and over. People are scared of getting chewed out for a "failure" when a learning curve, or even an outright fail is not the end of the world. Even if the idea of predetermined ends gets your goat, it's an easier model for an event. If all else fails let people get some practice in and then maybe you'll have more people to work with who will go on to do the more complex open ended events. As it stands, people will never get experience in running events because the idea of even attempting one will be too scary or they will get shouted down if they don't do an event exactly like the ones preceding theirs.

Also, as I said earlier, flexibility... If you need to adjust an idea to change an outcome to work logically then do so. What's the point of being on hand for your own event if you aren't going to keep it going? Sometimes someone has to stop playing for a sec and actually manage the event. But I noticed something over the last few years Rig... We talk a lot about having options and players coming up with event breaking ideas and you know what the reality has been? It almost never happens... Most players stand around either wondering what to do or will pick the most obvious answer even if it is an open event and there are 50 million possibilities. Regardless of why it happens, it typically does. Larger scale events don't run like an RP with 4 to 10 people. It's why people who run complex RPs often complain that they don't get explored fully. How often can you remember a "baddie" character being met with "kill it" and "kill it faster" which bypasses the story? So rather than make a Sherlock case out of it, these ideas are straight forward. There is an overarching resolution but some wiggle room in how you get there.

But, if you have no use for the alternate paths to the same end then fine. If knowing the end result is too much strain for you to RP under then fine. Do like I had to do with dark events and events that could easily get hijacked into those themes, avoid. Not everyone can adapt to every kind of event. Or, if you prefer, modify the idea to better suit your tastes.

Some people like to follow the cruise director around and others like to wander away to explore on their own.
more news and breaking stories at 11

Exactly. As I've said, it's a matter of taste. ;) If it were inconceivable we wouldn't have these conversation periodically as the idea would never occur to anyone to do differently.

Volki

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2013, 09:13:10 am »
Now that it's back on topic... I agree completely with Rigwyn.

For example, there was this one GM-run event in which there was a character who owned another character as a slave. I stumbled across it in the beginning, and the number of players rose to about twenty. Somehow it lasted hours, and it didn't need to. I actually left before the end because it was so boring. Why was it so boring? Well, players kept coming up with ingenious ideas, each one equally capable of ending the conflict, but none were accepted by the GM because he wanted it to end one way, and one way only.

People don't like participating in roleplays with a pre-determined outcome. They want to change the future and have an effect.

Whenever I used to run roleplays, I never came up with one single ending. I'd think of several possible endings. But those weren't necessarily going to happen, either. It is possible, though, to lead players to a certain outcome if you play your cards right. Of course, you have to be subtle enough that they won't notice.

By the way, running roleplays is hard, and you're not supposed to expect some "return". For me, it's fun by itself, and I never got burnt out doing it. Even when players decided to turn everything upside-down, I'd go along with it. If my ideas and plans were destroyed, then so be it. As long as everyone else is having fun, I don't care. (Unless of course they're breaking the basic rules.)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 09:20:04 am by Volki »
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Rigwyn

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2013, 09:22:49 am »
Gm events... LOL

Gm's have certain restrictions that they need to work with. Their event ideas need to be approved by a lead gm or settings in advance. They have limitations on what they can give out and so on. As players, we have it a bit easier.

We have all seen some pretty horrible gm events or at least heard of them. Again, people say they feel artificial or like a game show.

Some things that spoil an rp:

* Too many people ( a handful of players is ideal for a single group/gathering )

* reliance on gifts to make an event or rp successful

* having predetermined endings

* using new, unfamiliar characters that nobody knows.

* railroading and steering the rp rather than letting the players actively shape it.


Volki

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2013, 09:27:33 am »
I used a GM event as an example because I don't feel like blaming any actual players for poopy roleplay. <_<
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Illysia

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2013, 09:31:24 am »
..Somehow it lasted hours, and it didn't need to...
...People don't like participating in roleplays with a pre-determined outcome. They want to change the future and have an effect...

Obviously they were still inclined to participate in the RP since they were still there at the event, so you've negated your own statement with that example. ;) People still wanted to see the how the solution lead to the end so obviously there was still something they felt they could work with. People will wander off when there is nothing else they want out of an event. It is that simple... Accept that those people felt at least slightly differently about it. Also, blanket statements such as people never do X are rarely true and this is another case of that. In the end, it's still a matter of style.

@Rigwyn: the title of the thread is "Event Ideas" Rig... that inherently means the idea is to have more than a handful of people. Not one of those ideas or any of the rest to follow are for a handful of people. ;)

If it makes you feel better think of the end as a goal. No RP need be set in stone but if you don't know what are heading for you are just wasting people's time and I hate when people waste my time because they feel like going on a magical mystery tour with no real idea of resolution.

Volki

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2013, 09:38:38 am »
Hahaha, no. Several people left, including myself. The only players who remained were there for the OOC reward (they were all power-levelers).

Get it now?
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Illysia

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Re: Re: Ideas for Events
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2013, 09:42:02 am »
Ok, but let me put it this way. The thread is not changing. :) I know for a fact it can work different. If no one in PS can work with it then fine but I doubt that. However the matter resolves itself in that if you are right no one will try to do any of these events and you don't have to deal with it. But I suspect that not all of the people that can get with these kinds of RP have left the game