Bulk Crafting

[Eatuck]

Hi Everyone,

I had an idea to fix an annoyance with crafting. In its current state, a lot of crafting requires items to be made one at a time. An example is tanning leather. Right now you have to place one hide and the amount of tanning acid (depending on the size of hide) and combine to make one tanning leather. This takes a ton of time and clicks to complete a stack of hides. My temporary proposal (until crafting is fixed with better mechanics) is to be able to put a stack of hides on the table and the appropriate amount of tanning acid for the stack and be able to combine it all at once. In addition, I think this proposal would most benefit chain mail. Making stacks of closed rings, combined stacks of open rings and closed rings into patterns, stacks of patterns into strips, etc would all benefit from this. Regarding the closed rings and patterns into strips, it is different from combining because skill is raised with making those but I am sure a coder can figure out how to make that happen. Thank you for your consideration.

Eatuck

[tman]

There was talk back at a "meet the Devs" event about allowing combination recipes to be done 10 at a time.  I believe Talad said they'd talk about it but nothing came of it.  Yet...

[LigH]

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[Eonwind]

The crafting UI needs to be remade for certain and one of the things that need to be made faster (and with less clicks as possible) is certainly the combination step. Not sure when it will be done, but it's already in the TODO list!

[LigH]

Combining is one annoying part. Another is powderizing crystals.

[cdmoreland]

Combining is one annoying part. Another is powderizing crystals.

We should be able to do some combining, like tanning hides.  Making dust piles is my specialty; I should be making 300q piles by now!

[Eonwind]

@LigH: what's the problem you find with pulverizing?

We can't solve some of the requests raised by this thread without remaking the UI (for example improving the combining and moving the items to the container) but maybe we can fix some of the problems with transformations by changing the data.

[Kaerli_Stronwylle]

@LigH: what's the problem you find with pulverizing?

We can't solve some of the requests raised by this thread without remaking the UI (for example improving the combining and moving the items to the container) but maybe we can fix some of the problems with transformations by changing the data.

Combine steps (OP's issue) and use steps (pulverizing) have to be done one...item...at...a...time, which turns both of them into terrible bottlenecks in a crafter's workflow.  Combine steps likely will require code changes to allow for either n-way (put 1 x, 3 y, 1 x, 3 y, 1 x, 3 y into a crafting container and get 1 z, 1 z, 1 z out) or *n (put 3 x and 9 y into the container and get 3 z's from the resulting combine instead of an error) combine semantics instead of the current 0, 1, wrong! combine system.

[tman]

I don't really mind the long "use" steps all that much honestly.  Yeah they take a long time, but the practice you get is proportional to the duration a transformation takes.  So a long "use" step means lots of practice.  Yeah, it could be better but it's not awful.

Combinations are really bad.  SOOO many clicks and no practice to show for it.  My wrist starts to hurt sometimes if I combine a couple stacks.

Couldn't the problem be solved without modifying the UI by just adding new transformations for the particularly tedious combinations (like tea brewing) that have 10 times the ingredients and spit out 10 times the outputs?  I mean yeah that's a lot of database work...

Another option would require changing the code I think but it would be more elegant.  Presumably when someone clicks the "combine" button there is some code that checks whether the ingredients form a valid transformation.  More code could be added to see, if you divide all the ingredient quantities by 2, is that a valid transformation?  What about 3? 4? Etc.  Maybe up to a maximum (say 10 at a time).  If it finds a valid recipe, it remembers what the multiple was, divides the ingredients by it, does the transformation, and multiplies the result by it.

The checking could be made faster if you only allow certain multiples (say 5x or 10x).

[Eonwind]

with combine steps there's nothing we can do at the moment, but I can take a look at some transformations and I think I can improve them a bit.
An example of changes I can make could be to change a transformations where the process is 1 -> 1 (1 entry ingredient -> 1 result ingredient) so you can use any quantity (N entry ingredients -> N result ingredients).
This cannot be done when quantities vary from entry items to result items (example: 1 entry ingredient -> 2 result ingredients).

[Eonwind]

Couldn't the problem be solved without modifying the UI by just adding new transformations for the particularly tedious combinations (like tea brewing) that have 10 times the ingredients and spit out 10 times the outputs?  I mean yeah that's a lot of database work...

yes you're right it's a lot of work and I'm not even sure this would be the faster way (in term of development time it could take the same time to get implemented than a rework of the code) other than being sub-optimal for future data maintenance (imagine a bug is found in a combination: a dev [which could even be one that didn't make the data] should remember to fix it twice) other than "littering" the crafting books (which are already very long already) too much.

Another option would require changing the code I think but it would be more elegant.  Presumably when someone clicks the "combine" button there is some code that checks whether the ingredients form a valid transformation.  More code could be added to see, if you divide all the ingredient quantities by 2, is that a valid transformation?  What about 3? 4? Etc.  Maybe up to a maximum (say 10 at a time).  If it finds a valid recipe, it remembers what the multiple was, divides the ingredients by it, does the transformation, and multiplies the result by it.

The checking could be made faster if you only allow certain multiples (say 5x or 10x).

This is something similar I have in mind, best solution imo would be if you can choose a recipe and the recipe's step (like from a treeview window) and then the code would check the availability of items in your inventory (or you can highlight them to pickup specific items) and then the code do the rest. As for combination an option may tell the client to combine as much as possible items in inventory as you have, so if you have 3 stacks and you have a 1+1+1 combination all stacks will be combine at once with one click.

[LigH]

@LigH: what's the problem you find with pulverizing?

Use the mortar with one crystal.

Wait half a minute, watching the progress bar.

Use the mortar with one crystal.

Wait half a minute, watching the progress bar.

Use the mortar with one crystal.

Wait half a minute, watching the progress bar ... reminds me on Windows 3.1.

How many crystals do I have to powderize for enough potions to afford the next level? ... Hmmm. Do not disturb for the next hours, please. Or maybe I shouldn't make such a boring kind of potion, as soon as I am good enough for recipes which don't need crystal powders.

[Eonwind]

How many crystals do I have to powderize for enough potions to afford the next level? ... Hmmm. Do not disturb for the next hours, please. Or maybe I shouldn't make such a boring kind of potion, as soon as I am good enough for recipes which don't need crystal powders.

I think I can improve the situation by making it possible to process more crystals at time, however the mortar doesn't have many slots but processing half a dozen will be better than one at time. Adding to the TODO list.

[bilbous]

Pulverizing does get faster with increasing levels. It goes quite quickly after a while. Still the one at a time thing is a bit annoying, particularly as the container can hold more than one item. I suppose it is so multiple people can use the equipment at a time.

I always wondered why containers were not instanced so that no matter how many people are using a container, everyone had the full capacity to use. This may not be particularly realistic but it would be useful.

Another possibility is to abstract the process even further so instead of a container view you are presented with a process view. Expanding on Eonwinds suggestion, you right click on the container a form is presented with a space for your book on the right which opens a field on the left with possible transformations using that equipment from that book from which you select the one you want and then you drop in the number of ingredients you want to use. One common transformation to all forms could be a trash can so that you could use any container to eliminate any kind of waste just by dropping items in the appropriate slot.

[MishkaL1138]

I always wondered why containers were not instanced so that no matter how many people are using a container, everyone had the full capacity to use. This may not be particularly realistic but it would be useful.

I wonder the same, honestly. So many times I've ended up with ingots that weren't mine, and losing them to someone else. It's awkward having to ask for them, like you're accusing them of robbing you.