Author Topic: (Others) throwing in the towel  (Read 8757 times)

novacadian

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2013, 07:22:24 pm »
For me the dice write the story in rpg. The player points them to be sure, yet the dice write the missteps, coincidences and all the other factors mentioned above. If one wants to write a store then my feeling is they should sit down and write it. If one wants to see a character develop on their own the dice should be employed.

Needless to say that is not the approach of most of the present players on PS. Yet my feeling is that it is the natural, and desired, approach of most players that have at least visited PS. The former have remained to some degree and the others move on.

Even development of the project works against all the suggestions on this thread to date. Game mechanics do not support the RP concept but baffle and confuse it by their mere existence.

The fact that there is no consensus on RP speaks volumes. Dice define things. They remove the ego of the player and allow the character to be presented with results that are not player manufactured but are what the life of the character presents to it.

My play would, perhaps, fall under the category of fringe RPer here on PS. Some players have communicated who their characters are well to me through game play and there is an enjoyment with interacting with them.

As an RPG GM it is hard for me to imagine anything other than disagreements if outcomes are left to player consensus in a general sense. There are no doubt pockets of players who through prolonged interaction have a means of doing so. This, again, is why it is likely that most players come and then go from PS; never being able to find that clique of their own.

This all begs the question of my remaining on PS. It passes the time, and has a community that seems comfortable to me. It is my practice to neither seek nor push away RP; yet effort is made to remain on that fringe allow others to do their thing. My ooc desc explaining my desire for dice has been removed over the last year after realizing that it just lead to my character being totally ignored.

You have to wonder though, why develop all the game mechanics if the stats and dice mean nothing to the players? That time could have been spent on things like GMs being able to freeze time, allow turn sequences, other things probably not even aware to me that would be helpful to aid this allusive thing called RP. Yet they were not. Instead hours and hours of coding have transpired to develop game mechanics that have little use to RP as explained in this thread and throughout the forum.

Someone had gotten things wrong. It is not clear to me if it is the, now, small group of professed RPers or the developers who have things amiss.

 :oops:  :offtopic:

Ok.. my advice Kaerli is to come up with a good dice system to use here in PS with the aid of MyPlane. Try to draw to that system players like myself and the countless others who come here thinking RP is RPG only to find that is not the case. You may be surprised how many more there are that desire the use of dice than those that don't. That is not to mean the regular players presently on PS yet those that come and instead of going again would remain if they could find such a system of play in existence here.

 

bilbous

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2013, 10:17:03 pm »
Is this the controversy thread reborn?

Role players who ignore game mechanics are cheaters who might as well be on irq. If you are role playing abilities in the game that you have not bothered acquiring then you too may be a marysue because your character may be well rounded but it is no more than a child playing pretend. You have not put in the effort required to accomplish your resume. If you are role playing abilities that are not available in the game you need to be reasonably certain that they exist in the realm. Lack of evidence for them weakens your position. If you never develop your base stats then everything you claim to be able to do should be done very poorly because you have a child's stats.

If you do not do this you are not playing PlaneShift, you are doing the equivalent of writing Star Wars, or DnD fan fiction. You might as well claim a lemur could forcibly impregnate a kran for all the sense it makes.

Rigwyn

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2013, 11:25:55 pm »
Is this the controversy thread reborn?

Role players who ignore game mechanics are cheaters who might as well be on irq. If you are role playing abilities in the game that you have not bothered acquiring then you too may be a marysue because your character may be well rounded but it is no more than a child playing pretend. You have not put in the effort required to accomplish your resume. If you are role playing abilities that are not available in the game you need to be reasonably certain that they exist in the realm. Lack of evidence for them weakens your position. If you never develop your base stats then everything you claim to be able to do should be done very poorly because you have a child's stats.

If you do not do this you are not playing PlaneShift, you are doing the equivalent of writing Star Wars, or DnD fan fiction. You might as well claim a lemur could forcibly impregnate a kran for all the sense it makes.

+1 Evil :)   

By your logic, those who train but ignore roleplay are not "playing Planeshift" either. That's a pretty large audience to accuse of not being a "True Scottsman".

I'm not sure who exactly the "Strawman" here is supposed to represent either. Was this mean to represent all role players in general, a few who you dislike, or a specific one?

Like some other roleplayers here, I have stats to back my character, however I am probably one of the most outspoken players here when it comes to disregarding stats and just focusing on roleplay. Like those of you who enjoy training and dislike roleplay, I enjoy roleplay and dislike all the boring training.

* Rigwyn takes a long stick and puts a marshmallow on the end.

Volki

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2013, 11:44:18 pm »
lol wow

My character could, using mechanics, destroy each of yours in duels. I don't think there is anyone I haven't beaten in a fair duel. But ICly, my character often loses fights because it's far more interesting. If we were to use dice and base everything on levels, then my character would be a demi-god.

Novacadian, PlaneShift is not online D&D. It's a 3D game with text-based roleplay. These are two entirely different types of roleplay. We play for plot, not competition.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

bilbous

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2013, 12:54:58 am »
RPGs didn't really make the transition from tabletop to computers very well and role play was drastically changed in the transition from psychoanalysis/drama class to tabletop rpgs. I think the real point I am making is that role playing for the sake of role playing isn't really a game. Things happen but you can't win, there is no ultimate goal to achieve, no way to compare your progress to others, you might as well be on a group donkey tour of the grand canyon. The obverse of that is that role playing games are not really role playing. They are more like model car racing where you build your car and put it on the electric track in order to beat the other guys car. Sure you can pretend you are a race car driver but you are not really playing that role any more than you are when you play Off Road .

So I guess I'm just saying don't sweat the small stuff and Stop being so mean to Kaerli!





Kaerli_Stronwylle

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2013, 12:59:53 am »
As an aside: why ignore someone over something without bringing that issue up with them first? I am tired of people refusing to address me over their concerns/complaints.  Gossiping about someone DOES NOT FIX ANYTHING, kapiche?

Taya

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2013, 01:20:55 am »
Kaerli - when I had issues with you I told you exactly what they were and we talked it through until an understanding was reached. I have had no issues RPing with you since, though I do find your RP can be a little repetitive and so focused on mechanics that I can lose interest. On the other hand, I've seen some nice RP from you as well. I personally think that the thing maybe driving people away from you is how much you talk about your RP issues instead of just getting on with the RP itself. Sadly I don't know what to suggest that I haven't already suggested many times in the past.

bilbous - I guess I'm a cheater then.  But well, having the time to level a skill the mind-numbing amount of hours to max it isn't going to make someone be suddenly capable of RPing that ability well. Doesn't even mean they'll understand the settings. Just that they have an amazing capacity to tap certain keys over and over. I'd much rather place more value on whether the person has a good understanding of settings and how to develop plot/character/interest/other things that make them worth my time. I play my main at far below her actual levels. I play (some of) my alts at far above theirs. Why? Because in both cases it makes for a better story.

Rigwyn

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2013, 01:21:14 am »
Quote
As an aside: why ignore someone over something without bringing that issue up with them first?

Kaerli,

As for why people don't confront you? I think its a balance between not wanting to be rude or impolite and possibly hurt your feelings, and perhaps feeling like what they are saying is just not sticking. No offense, but talking to you can sometimes be like talking to an automated telephone tree.

In the past, you have had a reputation of being invincible, defying physics at your convenience, knowing everything, and flat out not taking damage when hit. You used to "play stats", however, you had also ran with the assumption that your stats were higher than they really were. How convenient. I think I speak for many folks when I say that this is not enjoyable. RP fighting with you is sometimes like trying to argue with a robot or pull teeth.

Imagine for a moment, two robots role playing with each other and getting caught in an infinite loop.

When people do things like this, I sometimes try to discuss it with them . If they understand what I am saying then great. If they don't, if they refuse to understand, or if they keep pulling wild and irrelevant arguments out of their ass for the sake of complicating the topic, then I walk away and RP with someone else. Quibbling over RP is not enjoyable to me, so I try to avoid it where possible.

You seem like a fairly decent person, someone who I would possibly hang out with, but when it comes to these discussions on RP rules, I'm divided on whether you actually "get it" or if you are deliberately "not getting it" in order to frustrate me for your own satisfaction and enjoyment. Again, I don't think I'm alone on this viewpoint.

novacadian

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2013, 01:58:59 am »
Novacadian, PlaneShift is not online D&D. It's a 3D game with text-based roleplay. These are two entirely different types of roleplay. We play for plot, not competition.

The difference of the styles is clear to me. Truth is RP could be done anywhere. In an IRC, street corner, bus stop, you name it. Just because one can RP here does not mean the software and it's development is being directed to that style of play. It seems quite the contrary.

That is the incredible contradiction with PS and probably it's downfall in terms of player base. ie The players and policy are heading in one direction and the software development in another.

Yet those who stay love it for it's quirky self and continue to beat this dead horse around.  ;D

bilbous

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2013, 02:15:06 am »
Just because I think it is cheating doesn't make it so. In an ideal game levelling would be much easier than it has traditionally been in PS, it is considerably better now. There are too many levels now, instead of expanding abilities they have been effectively diluted. I don't feel more powerful now than I did three years ago. Back then I could hunt ulbernauts by timing my swords and dancing, now they do not do enough damage to make it fun. My 400 rank stats are barely distinguishable from when max possible was ~80.

The settings have expanded too but it seems somewhat verbose the more I read, the less I know. Do I really need to know what the sea-folk call their version of hide and go tag if I can't participate in it myself? It is nice to have people working on this stuff but how does that help me play one of that race or set myself as different from a kran?


Anyway I feel guilty of straying off topic too long. Kaerli, next time don't ask me if I role-play just say some stuff that you think might be jointly interesting and see how I respond. I will always deny being a role-player because I am generally lazy and somewhat anti-social but I do try to honor that part of the game when it smacks me upside the head (don't really do that, it is just an expression). If I am running around all over the place it is hard to make me stop and smell the roses because it usually means I am actively engaging with the mechanics, questing or some such. I'm more likely to participate if I am at a stationary workplace, most of what passes for professions are deadly boring and distractions are more welcome. That said I haven't been in the game much lately and am working a good deal right now so might not get in more often, time when I have been unemployed were the times I played the most.

I will also say that Kaerli's reticence to accept those she consider strangers has an off-putting effect that goes beyond the character, you could try to counteract that by playing another character that talks to everyone and thinks people are bosom buddies until it is proven otherwise.

Rigwyn

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Re: (Others) throwing in the towel
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2013, 05:26:51 am »

Quote
The settings have expanded too but it seems somewhat verbose the more I read, the less I know. Do I really need to know what the sea-folk call their version of hide and go tag if I can't participate in it myself? It is nice to have people working on this stuff but how does that help me play one of that race or set myself as different from a kran?

Knowing something about kran culture and history enables you to play a believable kran - one that is more than just a collection of stats.

Given an Enki and a Kran with identical skills and stats, what makes them different? Numerically speaking, they are identical. From a mechanics point of view, it does not matter which one I choose. If we just look at numbers, then one could argue that it would make more sense to have just one race.

It's the things that the game mechanics are completely blind to that makes them different: Culture, mannerisms, history, biology, diet, preferred architecture, beliefs, past wars and alliances, the way they speak and address one another and so on.