Is This Game Too Hard?

[Volki]

I tried questing for my new character. It did seem like I gained a lot of PP from it, but it took a long time and the PP ran out surprisingly fast. I wouldn't say questing is even an option. The best you can do is what Venalan just described. I've been double-clienting and using my main to aid the new character. Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to get any skills to rank 10, and stats are a nightmare. I've given up. :/

[Pakarro]

Got a secondary char (actually my first), and he learns quite ok and moves on doing quests. Herb and harvest at 9, plus a little knife and casting (below 5). But he died and didn't get to dr, so he must have few hours. Someone knows?

No help from Pakerl..

See ya!

[Bonifarzia]

My experience is that because my weak char does little damage, I get almost no pp.  Maybe 1 pp.  So going along with a skilled hunter - which a couple of different oldbies did for me (oldbies are awesomely helpful, did I already say this?) - did me no good.

Boni, did you have a different experience?  Can you actually help weak chars gain pp in this way?  I think the days of standing on...what's her name, Guile's tent while she get hit by rocks by strong chars and getting enough pp to hope to become strong yourself...those days are gone.

Correct me if I am wrong.

I am glad that Venalan already answered this point for me, so I don't have to explain strategies that might be considered a spoiler 

A little point about hunting to gain PPs. Do not do it grouped. If you are grouped and an older player does 99% damage and you do 1%, you get 1% of the PP. If two players go hunting and one player does 99% and then runs off, and you then start attacking and give the killing blow you get 100% of the PP. a newish character giving the killing blow to guile will get 150+ PPs. But its a little risky.

That summarizes it very nicely. So the idea is to help a trainee in the arena by creating a constant flow of critically injured beasties, while transferring mana to the young hunter so he can keep blasting them to death.

Conerning another issue, i could not resist to create a ticket.

[PhoenixRizin]

The moving/vanishing NPCs are what bother me more than anything. It's either time-consuming or costly to get from place to place to quest or train, especially for lower levels, and to finally complete something and spend time or money to turn it in only to find the NPC of choice is MIA is screen-punchingly frustrating. I think quest NPCs at any level should stay put (not just the lower ones), and perhaps some "flavor NPCs" (ones that have no purpose other than to move around or talk about happenings) could fill in the void if the devs are aiming to make the world feel "alive". Moving needed NPCs is just straight up torture.

I'm not a fan of the PP system in general, but that's something for a much bigger discussion. At the moment, I think that quests should give out at least twice as many PP as they currently do, mainly because they are the primary source for new players, and while the community certainly presents itself as very helpful (kudos to everyone for that!), that help may not always be readily available, and because training itself is already a time sink, the increased PP may be a bit more encouraging to those starting up.

Lastly, I'm definitely for a Bronze Doors pterosaur. That run has always been monstrous, especially going back and forth. And unless things have changed drastically in my time away, I don't even recall using BD as much if at all once I got into the winch, so the flight would be infinitely more useful at the start. Perhaps it could be double the cost to go to the other cities, but I think players should start with BD flight, or just have a single quest from Krestal to see the pterosaur NPC in BD to unlock it.

[Eonwind]

The mathscripts assigning practice points for every skill have been revised a few months ago, since then the practice time required for each skill is almost the same for every combat/magic/crafting skill, so the progression is overall balanced for every skill. Changing the amount of practice required means only changing a single number for each skill in the DB. I guess the biggest problem is maxing out a skill (any skill) requires about 200h of practice time...

[bilbous]

I think that you should be able to max out at least a couple skills within 20-30 hours of play. Doubling skills/stats to 200/400 max did not add to the game it just made it incredibly longer. It isn't all that hard to max out your stats because there is no practice time involved but skills are a bit ridiculous.  If you could advance at a reasonable rate people would not fear a wipe so much and balancing new content would be easier to effect.

[Mouli]

I guess the biggest problem is maxing out a skill (any skill) requires about 200h of practice time...

this is true for Armor Making for sure... you should need less than that if you have load of steel and do not waste your time assembling patterns and then Strip... its very fast to train crafting using contenairs... Atm how many characters maxed out metallurgy ? it took me one week to max it out from lvl 150, It took me years to train those 150 lvl... Training with hammering is way longer...
But I can give 100 millions trias to the one who max any Magic way in 200 hours...
It should be possible if the enchanters would allows us to enchant many gems at once (like we drop many molten steel in the forge) but for now it take age just to reach realm 2, the required lvl for getting the quest for the enchanting room

[Volki]

I guess the biggest problem is maxing out a skill (any skill) requires about 200h of practice time...

[LigH]

@ Mouli:

In this case, you are not playing the role-playing game, only the game-mechanics game. Which of them is PlaneShift?
__

@ Volki:

In this case, I completely agree.

[Mouli]

@ Mouli:
In this case, you are not playing the role-playing game, only the game-mechanics game. Which of them is PlaneShift?

In which case ? just because I offer 100 millions...
I dont really get your point here, being old and rich, make me out of "your" game LigH ?
  I'm really disapointed by your answer... but never mind this war, Player vs Rper has been around for too long and I'm very sad that you keep it on the table...
 Cuz IMO its been one of the disease that reduced average player online...
Other all, Player or Rper, we are all testers here... no ?

[Bonifarzia]

  I'm really disapointed by your answer... but never mind this war, Player vs Rper has been around for too long and I'm very sad that you keep it on the table...

I think he was just making a joke. It is my feeling that we do not have this type of problem nowadays. There may be a few "typical" roleplayers or grinders, but most players I know just do what they like and respect others.

[Eonwind]

I think that you should be able to max out at least a couple skills within 20-30 hours of play. Doubling skills/stats to 200/400 max did not add to the game it just made it incredibly longer. It isn't all that hard to max out your stats because there is no practice time involved but skills are a bit ridiculous.  If you could advance at a reasonable rate people would not fear a wipe so much and balancing new content would be easier to effect.

if the project leader (Talad) agree it takes less than 5 minutes to reduce the amount of practice required.

But I can give 100 millions trias to the one who max any Magic way in 200 hours...

actually magic can be maxed in less time but you need to provide yourself a reliable source of mana, stamina, cast the highest possible realm available at your level and with the highest possible KFactor you can cast without failing too much spellcasting.

[LigH]

@ Mouli:

Your disappointment may be based on missing the sarcasm here, or interpreting the "you" directed to you, not the one who powerlevels; I am not certain why.

My intention was to express that someone who powerlevels with such a speed (level 200 in 200 hours playing time) has no time to roleplay, no time to get to know other characters. And if I did not take my time to meet others, I would not play PlaneShift anymore; that's my personal experience. For me, as a player who persists so many years without a longer break, "the game PlaneShift" is defined more by the life the players generate with their characters, less by the game mechanics which are only a tool.

@ Eonwind:

I don't understand why 200 hours practice time are "the biggest problem of PlaneShift". Are they too many or too few? No, I don't see much problem in the practice time. I see the problem in the frustrating complexity and realism, if at all. I don't play a game that isn't fun; life is hard enough. Therefore I don't spend much time in leveling skills. But roleplay instead.

Not even german soccer team managers are as complex as PlaneShift, I believe. And you know, we germans are the clerks of the world. (More sarc marks?)

[jowifi]

To those of you complaining about how hard it is to level, please answer this:  Why do you want to level up, especially to the max?  Is it just a desire for completeness, or do you have a plan for using your skill?

Obviously, some quests require a certain level of skill or the money to buy the needed item.  There have been a couple that I've found a bit of a grind (I've had the Forging Platinum Steel Blades quest open for months and still have a long way to go).

I've gotten to the point with my characters where I'm not sure there's much value in continuing to level up.  I haven't made it past adept in any Way, I only have two crafting skills above 100, and my highest combat skill is only 32.  I can already kill all the mobs I want to with magic, so there's little reason to level up combat.  There's not much of a player market for crafted goods, and making stuff just to sell it to an NPC seems pointless.  I've done most quests a couple times, so there's no strong pull to run a new character through them. 

It's at the point where I feel I either have to get more involved in RP or quit.   Perhaps this is the goal of the devs and they're just hoping I choose RP over quitting. 

[Mariana Xiechai]

It's at the point where I feel I either have to get more involved in RP or quit.   Perhaps this is the goal of the devs and they're just hoping I choose RP over quitting.

I'll RP withya! 

Seriously though. I think the leveling system is a bit time-consuming. But that is my only qualm about it. That said, I don't "grind" or what have you. I have about ten characters that I role play. And of them, I role play at least four fairly consistently. I do not have the time to grind that many characters in whatever various skillsets they may have, nor would I if I did, because I get no enjoyment out of it whatsoever. I like the loreside, the questing and bookreading and even reading what all the different plants do, but as to killing five dozen ulbernauts standing on a rock somewhere with CRYSTAL ARROW! I say no thank you, sirrah!

That is, however, ME. I have no issue with people who DO wish to spend their free time leveling or exploring the mechanics, or questing, or what have you. If that is fun, fantastic! To each their own as had already been stated, and speaking from experience, programming and quest scripting takes a lot of time and effort. Having people enjoy these aspects is vital to the game. There is no superior or inferior method of enjoyment and there are no "sides." I've found personally that so long as "non grinders" don't make their characters intolerable Demi-gods, people who are highly ranked will respect their strengths (and weaknesses!) when the proverbial role play paths cross.

I should like to also point put that not everyone is going to be a Yliakum version of Bruce Lee. Not everyone is going to be a MASTAH OF ALLLLLLL THAH THINGS. (Frankly nobody should probably be a master of every little thing, but I digress!) There is nothing wrong with having a character that is not as combat oriented. It all comes down to what sorts of RP you wish to explore honestly!

This has been my two cents for whoever gets bored enough to read it