Was: "BF? But How?" Now: "BF Aspects I don't get"

[bilbous]

In a world of gods and divination spells how can the Black Flame be secret? How can anyone have any secrets? Can the Black Flame prevent the other gods revealing his devices to their followers? Do the other gods not care enough about their followers to give them the information they need to fight off the threat? Are the gods all in cahoots or merely aspects of one personality fractured being.

What do you think is going on?

[LigH]

I am very disappointed of you, bilbous.

"But how?" topic titles usually indicate a lack of intellectualism. This appears to be your rock bottom so far.

[bilbous]

What do you expect from a rock-head? Rock bottom has to be a good place indicating satiety, now?
BTW it is "in you" not "of you"

Is it the topic titles that so disappoints or the topic generally?

[LigH]

No, the topic content is reasonable.

They must be masters of disguise, somehow. Magically...

[bilbous]

never let it be said I don't listen to criticism

[cdmoreland]

There are those that would expose them for what they are, but no one listens. "The Black Flame is just a fairy tale."

Good must prevail over evil or else we are all doomed!

I, Waesed, pledge my sword, my wealth, and even my very life to expose and defeat the Black Flame!

[Mariana Xiechai]

I always figured the Black Flame operated so covertly that it's not really considered anything but a folk tale. It's sort of like you listening to a ghost story or watching some movie about possession. Odds are you don't believe in ghosts or demons yourself, so if someone walked up to you and claimed to "have had an encounter," how seriously would you take that?

That said, your point about magic can also be confronted with the Black Flame also being a supernatural entity. Maybe you can't actually scry for it? Maybe you cannot divine it? If it has any form of omniscience (and it could, it's a god-like creature after all,) then this wouldn't be all that far fetched.

I think the point is to create a more "lasting" antagonist. Judging from black flame players I've encountered, they tend to be more complicated than your average character, and frequently their nefarious actions, intentionally or no, are veiled as being something not attached to the Flame. Of course you have the random person that tries to pull some crazy ass bombing or something and write FROM THE BLACK FLAME in big bloody letters on the wall somewhere, but again, as per the first paragraph, odds are you'd think that person was a nutter.

I never played a black flame member, but I do know there's a hidden library somewhere in game with information about it. Who knows, maybe there's a reason lore-wise.

Just some thoughts.

[Volki]

This is why divination and scrying are lame. Also, I'm pretty sure scrying isn't something that exists in PS.

[bilbous]

information gathering at a distance is definitely in the game as one specific quest makes use of it. It was kind of sketchy in effect but got the job done. There is also that one spell that supposedly gives you fore-knowledge of your opponents tactics. I'm not certain what exactly it does though. +s to hit maybe.

[Rigwyn]

Personally, I think this makes the most sense if you think of the gods as being powerful, but limited. Either they are not fully aware of what black flame is doing, or perhaps they see it as more of a minor infection - something that could be dealt with if it gets out of hand.

[cdmoreland]

Out of hand, like when the BF slaughtered the Nolthrir?

[Volki]

http://www.planeshift.it/History <- Powerful, but limited.

information gathering at a distance is definitely in the game as one specific quest makes use of it. It was kind of sketchy in effect but got the job done.

Please tell us.

[Rigwyn]

I think you would have a stalemate if all gods were equally powerful, knowledgeable, capable and so on. The same thing happens when all players make themselves equally powerful and all knowing.

As for the out of hand part, if you look at the "history of magic" as an example, you see that Talad is not always paying attention to every little detail. There's this, "When Talad returned and saw what a mess the world became" bit in there.  ( I don't remember the exact wording )

As for curative measures, who knows, maybe this is an enemy that is equally powerful, or perhaps the cost of exterminating it might mean wiping out the entire population in the process. There might not be a selective approach or like working with an infected hard drive, it might just be simpler to just reformat it and start over from scratch.

[bilbous]

@volki there is a certain person in the winch who gets a damaged letter from home (on another level) that alarms him and it is incumbent on the player to find someone that can give the recipient some peace of mind. I'll not say more about it, see for yourself.

At any rate I do not expect any firm answers from threads like this, I do like to hear other opinions as they help color my understanding.

[Eonwind]

I always figured the Black Flame operated so covertly that it's not really considered anything but a folk tale. It's sort of like you listening to a ghost story or watching some movie about possession. Odds are you don't believe in ghosts or demons yourself, so if someone walked up to you and claimed to "have had an encounter," how seriously would you take that?

^ this

That said, your point about magic can also be confronted with the Black Flame also being a supernatural entity. Maybe you can't actually scry for it? Maybe you cannot divine it?

^ and this.

While talking about gods, magic and their mysteries in PS, one should always account for a few things:

• mortal magic, albeit powerful cannot stand the gods magical power. This means that should the best magician face a gods his spells will probably not even affect the god in any way. (e.g. the most powerful lava fist won't even scratch a god).
• Gods are NOT simply powerful beings. Do not think of gods like ordinary character with incredibly high stats and skills. Being a god doesn't mean just being a powerful character.
• Even if god may have a "proxy" or an "avatar", which could be mortal in some way, harming or killing him doesn't mean necessarily harming or killing the god.
• given the points above: srying on gods is not possible, reading a god mind is not possible, even proving their own existence is not possible if they don't want to (and we can safely assume BF - if it exists at all - don't want to).
• about magic divination, while it is possible within certain limits, well some form of scrying are surely outside those limits.

Suggestion about magic: while released spells are surely not comprehensive of all possible magical feats they can at least give you an hint about the power level a magician can attain at a certain realm. Of course you're welcome to create your own spells in your RP or use the existing spells in a creative way but the existing spells can be considered a guideline.