Author Topic: Coercion of freedom of speech  (Read 9130 times)

MishkaL1138

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Coercion of freedom of speech
« on: March 25, 2015, 01:42:14 pm »
It has come to my attention that some players (counting myself) can't seemingly express their opinion and ask for an official point of view from the game's lead, without threads getting locked, comments being erased and, probably and in ultimate stance, getting banned for it.

We've been called trolls, accused of disrupting ambiance, of acting OOCly (actually, the ones who define what's OOC and IC in game are the players: that's why PS is supposed to be great, because it takes everyone's two cents... or at least it should). It's tiresome, it's furstrating, gives a bad image and makes you look like a bigot.

So instead of driving players away from your game, man up, open your mind, and accept criticism, suggestions, and what the players actually want. We can't be the change we want to see in PS, if nobody will accept it.

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

LigH

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2015, 02:02:21 pm »
Freedom of speech gives you the right to express your opinion, but gives me the right to ignore your opinion just as well. So please, let me ignore your opinion when I decide I'm not interested in it. Stop forcing me to listen to you by repeating it wherever I look.

If you want to play PlaneShift, play with the settings. If you want to play against the settings, rather play a different game.

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bilbous

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2015, 02:36:51 pm »
Ah, yes! As a player I decide that everything you do is OOC and everything I do is IC. Sounds perfectly cromulent.

Bilbous is looking for a menki weewee to graft on in order to assuage his peepee envy. Is trans-speciation within the settings, maybe I should look to implant some dwarf beard hair and ynwnn bosoom whilst I am at it.

Pick your battles where they matter. This is just rolling coal to be obnoxious

MishkaL1138

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2015, 03:50:23 pm »
If you're unable of giving a meaningful opinion instead of laughing at someone just to stroke your own ego, I'd say you should refrain from commenting. After all this is a serious complaint. It's not about the content, but about the way it's said.

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

Cairn

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2015, 04:26:52 pm »
A few thoughts.


1.) For quite some time, the "settings" in the united states and some other countries dictated that homosexual marriage was not allowed. So, people made do as they could, and continue to do so. While the climates in this particular region are changing to allow it as a constitutional right, or legally recognized state of partnership, a lot of people see it as a state of personal choice, not a legal right.

Which brings up: Why do we so desperately want to allow it in PlaneShift? What 'rights' would gay characters be receiving? Have the Octarchy made a decree allowing gay characters extra or lesser rights? Or is this simply a battle against the "Marriage Function" button.

Because frankly, there's better ways to go about this if it's just against Settings. Those gay characters would need to go about it in an IC manner, much like the LBGT community has done in real life in countries around the world: Make your voices heard, make it a reality. Why? Because Talad is absolutely correct: The setting that has been laid out is one where it is something that is either not mainstream, frowned upon, or what have you.

I will say this for you once: IF it is simply a matter of changing IG consciousness, we can go about it in a uniquely powerful IG manner. We CAN change the settings, ladies and gents. We have always had that power to some extent in this unique game.

However, if it's a matter of just being pissed about the "Marriage" function button, perhaps it's a twofold fight. We would need to change the IG culture, and then yes, like some of us are doing now, we need to rally to either completely remove the function or allow it to be a non-gender specific function.

So lets clarify where that battle is, first.

I think from what I've gathered so far in parsing over the threads, it's more an issue of the actual coding, which means that we just need to get rid of the marriage action or expand its functions. But that honestly does require a change in settings of some sort, because what if the Octarchy doesn't approve of these marriages? What if they're not going to legally sanction them? Hell, we've roleplayed lesbian and gay marriages for YEARS in planeshift. YEARS. Talad IS right that these are issues that have been beaten on before. Have we ever considered that MUCH like in some countries, it's just not OK by the government?

How are we, as the players of PlaneShift and the In-game characters, going to make it OK. Because we CAN.

See what I'm saying? We can't just shoot blindly from the hip in our rage while we're trying to make things 'fair'. I think we have a golden opportunity in this game and we need to actually go about it properly. This could either turn out really great, or really, really horribly.

Just my two cents.

There're going to be trolls who leap all over this post and say, "U don't even support LBGT bro" or shit like that.

Screw off. I support you representing it properly. Have some pride in what you do. Make a change and be the change. If the settings have dictated it thus far, we can now set our minds on changing the settings.

Wham bam.

[All that to say it's probably easier to remove the damn button. If we want to get married or change a name, we can just have a dev/gm/priest character perform the ceremony, and put in a ticket for a name change if you want. RolePlay, baby!]
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 04:29:07 pm by Cairn »
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Donari Tyndale

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2015, 04:36:10 pm »
There is no IC setting that forbids gay marriage. It has been stated by the Devs, but in fact, there is nothing in game that indicates to gay marriage being forbidden. And as you correctly stated, gay characters have married in the past and probably will do so in the future.
I think the main problem is the marriage function as it imposes an OOC restriction, an OOC restriction that is solely determined by various conservative views in the Dev team, in my opinion.
If the settings argument is supposed to hold, then please start arresting gay couples in game.

Cairn

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2015, 04:43:38 pm »
Yeah if it's settings based, make it concrete yo.
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Eonwind

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2015, 05:12:54 pm »
It has come to my attention that some players (counting myself) can't seemingly express their opinion and ask for an official point of view from the game's lead, without threads getting locked, comments being erased and, probably and in ultimate stance, getting banned for it.

We've been called trolls, accused of disrupting ambiance, of acting OOCly (actually, the ones who define what's OOC and IC in game are the players: that's why PS is supposed to be great, because it takes everyone's two cents... or at least it should). It's tiresome, it's furstrating, gives a bad image and makes you look like a bigot.

So instead of driving players away from your game, man up, open your mind, and accept criticism, suggestions, and what the players actually want. We can't be the change we want to see in PS, if nobody will accept it.

Mishka don't make it so long... you've always voiced your opinions and your RPs loudly even when it skewed up events and you have not been banned for that... do not play victim just because the 99th thread about the same argument has been closed.

Donari Tyndale

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2015, 05:19:26 pm »
Clearly, it isn't just Mishka expressing these opinions, so please don't make it personal.

Eonwind

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2015, 05:34:07 pm »
Clearly, it isn't just Mishka expressing these opinions, so please don't make it personal.

yeah ... always the same 3-4 peoples opening the same threads... and Mishka said he had the problem so it was a problem for him

Donari Tyndale

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2015, 05:36:53 pm »
Well, I know of others who do not dare to post about these issues for fear of being banned. So perhaps the hostile atmosphere relayed by those in charge should change, for once? Not closing all threads opened with respect to that topic would help, for one. After all, many other threads are kept alive and allow for endless necroing, yet it seems that only threads on this topic experience closures.

MishkaL1138

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2015, 05:40:46 pm »
Clearly, it isn't just Mishka expressing these opinions, so please don't make it personal.

yeah ... always the same 3-4 peoples opening the same threads... and Mishka said he had the problem so it was a problem for him

I could give you a list of people who have been silenced by means of banning or harassment, actually. It may be my problem this time, but as it happens I share it with a lot more of people, and they do seem to back up not me but my point of view. So yes, don't take it personally, especially when you're a dev and I'm a player (who sometimes collaborates with the team, as if that changed anything), and you're going out to me. Think about the image that's giving.

Donari says it: if you look at the amount of threads with stingy topics that have been opened, you'll see that there's an actively attempt to silence the players demanding a change. Don't want people to voice their opinion? Get rid of the forums. But as long as there are forums where we can voice our concern, people will keep posting this kind of things.

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

bilbous

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2015, 05:43:54 pm »
If you're unable of giving a meaningful opinion instead of laughing at someone just to stroke your own ego, I'd say you should refrain from commenting. After all this is a serious complaint. It's not about the content, but about the way it's said.
Freedom of speech for some but not others, nice.

It isn't a serious complaint because a fatally flawed game feature allows some characters to be trapped in marriages with abandoned characters and not some others. This failed functionality is a direct result of pandering to the players when there were a lot more players and was frequently abused to annoy others. It needs to go the way of the late unlamented /introduce. Noble ideas but impractical.

Why can't I play a deranged trans-humanist? I've done all the BF quests, it has to leave a mark. -- probably why I can't get the dakkru quests...
You are right though, it is only habit that keeps me coming back to these forums and boredom that brings me back to the bug hunt. I abandon 50% of the replies I write before posting. 

Cairn

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2015, 05:51:49 pm »
Gonna throw this out there: There's a lot of new guests registering on the forum all of a sudden >.>
Not sure what's going on there...I hope no one called a brigade in :(. I actually like this game and like playing it...

And yeah Bilbous is right.

That is all.

I'll shut up now >.>
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 05:57:50 pm by Cairn »
I regret to announce that this is the end.

I bid you all a very fond farewell

Donari Tyndale

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Re: Coercion of freedom of speech
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2015, 06:14:29 pm »
Gonna throw this out there: There's a lot of new guests registering on the forum all of a sudden >.>
Not sure what's going on there...
I'll shut up now >.>
Spambots, as usual. They don't actually succeed in registering, though.