PlaneShift, public relations and LGBT issues

[Donari Tyndale]

Let's start with a picture.



Right now, the average amount of players online is actually the lowest since switching to teamix. Clearly, PS is in need of good public relations.

Now, there is a shitstorm just waiting to happen with the whole PS marriage thing. With the current IT/internet community rather set on promoting these issues, it's just a matter of time before the shitstorm ignites, in my opinion. No organization these days can afford to even be superficially accused of an anti-lgbt stance. Now, while I get Talad's argument in the current debate, the question isn't whether this is perfectly permissible as a setting for PS (which it is), but rather the outwards view it portrays. If anyone here followed the recent Gamergate debate, I'm pretty sure that once lgbt-activists hear what's going on, they won't exactly take the same stance as Talad. And then at latest, PS is headed for a PR black hole.

On the other hand, if PS adopted an actively pro LGBT stance, perhaps this would generate positive PR and improve the game's standing? Also, perhaps we should discuss dropping the "There was no homosexual marriage in the mediaval times" argument as "There was no magic, no Klyros, no Kran, no Laanx, no Yliakum etc. in the middle ages" either.

Discuss?

[MishkaL1138]

I can't but agree with you despite the fame of forum troll you've got... But this time I'm afraid you're on the right. It's not a matter of defending your point of view but of protecting yourself against this kind of future attacks. Imagine someone shares this in tumblr: as soon as one of the radicals sees this, they could be able to seriously harm PlaneShift's already low reputation.

[Cairn]

Yeah. I can't help but agree that extremist posters don't take kindly to this business.

It's really an easy fix: completely remove the marriage button, and make an Octarchial decree on the matter.

I'm not saying your Decree has to allow it. But it has to make the stance clear.

Why? Because I think part of good RP can mean playing under that oppression. Giving characters a chance to rise up and CHANGE the settings of the oppression!

Or, the decree can allow it, and all of this goes away like water under the bridge.
Like Eon posts below me, it really is honestly just a setting. How can we not play a setting? Good gods guys. Either deal with it or change it IG, right?

It's not as big a deal as you make it out to be. People have played gay marriages in this game as far back as I can remember, and no one raised a stink about it.

[Eonwind]

PS and its settings has nothing to do with LGBT, PS is a game not a politic movement, it's not even made to foster any political opinion of sort including being pro or against LGBT; therefore I don't think we need to flatter any political group or political area.

[Donari Tyndale]

I agree. But someone has made the decision that marriage in PS, at least the button for that, works only for characters of different gender, through a gender check in the source code, hence making a statement. Not making a statement would be not adding a restriction for gender and race.
Also, Cairns idea to remove the marriage function and making an Octarchial decree seems a valid solution.

[Cairn]

Yep. Like Eon said, we don't need to flatter anyone or make a statement with the game.

All we need to do is make the stance concrete and clear. Put it in game, in writing. Clarify the issue. ["Back up" the marriage button, if you will, because as others have stated there are no books, writings, or else to support it.]

Then, the players can get to work.

[Eonwind]

So you want books about marriage? There are a few planned about marriage tradition for each race (or books about races that speak about such traditions). But you won't ever find an IG book or a statement condemning LGBT marriage or things like that.

Not talking about them in-game is already a message.

[Mariana Xiechai]

I'm writing the books on marriage.

I'm pretty sure I remember putting something in there about nolthrir occasionally practicing open relationships or even polygamy, as in accordance with the implications about how they go about things on the race page.

I also point out these relationships have no gender bias if I recall correctly.

Hm. Has that been put in the game? If not...oops. Thought it was. [<.< spoilers?]

[Donari Tyndale]

So marriage between people of the same sex is allowed, yet the OOC marriage button that prevents just that is kept? I am confused. If it isn't prohibited IC wise, then the marriage button should reflect that.

According to Mariana, pretty much anything goes marriage wise, so clearly, the marriage button is not tied to anything IC, most certainly not settings. Hence it is a superfluous item that if kept, solely makes an OOC statement.

Either you should, as Cairn said, back that button up with in game settings, or remove it alltogether. Otherwise, it seems just anti-LGBT. And back to the topic. You can clearly see how this is headed to disastrous PR for PS?

[Eonwind]

So marriage between people of the same sex is allowed, yet the OOC marriage button that prevents just that is kept? I am confused. If it isn't prohibited IC wise, then the marriage button should reflect that.

Either you should, as Cairn said, back that up with in game settings, or remove it alltogether. Otherwise, it seems just anti-LGBT. And back to the topic. You can clearly see how this is headed to disastrous PR for PS?

Disastrous?! No less than disastrous? Sorry but this really looks ridiculous that such things as LGBT pride is disastrous for PS. We have bigger problems like missing engine features, difficulties compiling under certain platforms.

The settings is like that because Yliakum is a dangerous place, the society need to have children because they need them to grow up and work, become soldiers and protect the land. Yliakum is not an opulent society no longer worried about its survival and therefore can spend a lot of time caring about problem smaller than: food, security and things like that.
Sure, two people of the same sex can "merry" but to the ordinary citizen would see it as an oddity, still no one would persecute them because concepts like "racism" and things like that are not accepted ICly by the law.

[Donari Tyndale]

I get your point, Eonwind. But what has the marriage button to do with any of it? Why is it even there? And why is the OOC button linked to different sexes?

Also, you haven't followed the recent events, then. Social justice issues seem to prevail far more urgently than any game content.

[Prreta]

As someone who has used the marriage button, it makes little to no IC difference. No benefits are granted and you can't even see the location of your spouse as you can with GuildMates. The ONLY things it does are to give the female the same last name as the male [ ]  and make a totally OOC entry in your IC description. I say OOC because you certainly can't tell if someone is married by looking at them and even less likely could you tell the name of their spouse.

Let's just get rid of the button and make marriage fully IC. Then we solve two problems at once.

[Eonwind]

I get your point, Eonwind. But what has the marriage button to do with any of it? Why is it even there? And why is the OOC button linked to different sexes?

The point is the button is not OOC. The fact is the button feature reflect the society "standard" view about marriage. There are not even specific laws about marriage because it's somewhat the standard condition an individual is usually expected to comply from his/her family (except kran who don't even need a partner to create offspring).

Also, you haven't followed the recent events, then. Social justice issues seem to prevail far more urgently than any game content.

I don't get what you're talking about, are you talking of RL or in game events run by the GMs?

[Donari Tyndale]

I don't get what you're talking about, are you talking of RL or in game events run by the GMs?

The whole gamergate/social justice issues in gaming thing that has been going on since about a year, from which it is safe to learn that anything that can be construed as anti LGBT means disaster for a game in development.

[Demagul Riwe]

There already are a ton of same-sex weddings and relationships in the game you know...this line of code prevents it from being recognized by the game, though, which is why this debate is so heated. It's like a significant amount of relationships in PS aren't even recognized by the code.