Consequence

[Cairn]

I like to post threads about thoughts apparently, lol.

Anyways, here's the latest:

Yliakum's settings depict it as a harsh world to live in, where every citizen should learn not only a trade, but also be able to protect themselves from the environment through combat, etc. Everyone learns how to fight to some degree, or at least barter or talk their way out of a situation. Magic is not only a tool, but also a weapon, and spells can both be defensive and offensive. Strange things happen in this Dome......

Magic and innovation make things very, very convenient to get over.
So it's partially the fault of the settings being contradictory.

One thing's missing, though: real Consequences. Yliakum as it's played is also often a land where things that might be major to us (death, robbery, dismemberment, or even more minor things like loss of tria, social stature, etc.) are often minor, and can easily be rectified with a few choice words or some hand-waving and rehab time.

Here's why: When we have a character, it's hard to have it change in any way other than positive. Read that through thoroughly - I'm not saying we DON'T change our characters, but rather we gear them to overcome every obstacle in a positive manner. Even the things that may have physical or mental side effects we in turn choose to have those side effects be spun for 'good', somehow. And I am not saying that everything needs to be bad....

We just need real consequences, or at least ones that take time to mend from. We can't have people who have had things happen to them without any mental or physical results. We can't have people running around who should have PTSD of some sort acting normally.

Now, hear me out:

I -am- saying that we should advocate consequence, both positive and negative.
I -am- saying that we as an RP whole have gravitated towards being 'fixers' of everyone's choices; why? It's convenient and people like being fixed and moving on.
I -am- saying that the results of this are people who's story arc stall. You're fixed, you sputter, you mill about with nothing to do.
I am -NOT- purposefully trying to make anyone feel bad. The fact that we gravitate towards fixing people is natural, and those of you who do so should feel no shame about it whatsoever. It's right to do that for other people's characters.

Dear Other People's Characters (including me),

Let's just consider our consequences a bit deeper, shall we?
Let's think about how we would be affected if we
a.) lost all our money (and the mental & physical dilapidation thereof!)
b.) got mugged (And the trauma and stress involved!)
c.) broke off a relationship (And the despondency therein!)
b.) Found the hope afterwards! <-----

Little things like this can greatly improve our roleplay, just going above and beyond when it comes to fleshing out how we react. Because truthfully, PlaneShift is a reactionary game. Things can't be planned very well since we're just going about playing off of each other for the most part.

So in your reactionary game, let's consider being revolutionary in very small ways.

(A sidenote, for the people who don't like sadness, etc.
-go watch Inside Out (xD)
-I'm not advocating evil or unhappiness. I'm advocating for a grasp on how to integrate your character. Remember, the defining trait of the human (or perhaps Ylian...) condition is HOPE. Through each reaction, perhaps keep Hope as close to your chest or as far away as it needs to be....)


Postscript thoughts on consequence, feel free to add:
Too many become lost in the Realm of Death....(whether true Death or not) - Octarchial Decree
My tummy and legs really hurt when he poisoned me, and I was quite mad at him. I still get pissed when I think about him - Cairn (hypothetically? )

[Jilerel]

I have nothing more to say except that I totally agree.
I think some people have troubles connecting "RP Events" on the long term, like if the events were different stories in an anthology. That might be a cause for the lack of "consequences" for some people.

[Aramara Meibi]

the universe is an inverted paradox where every truth is a dichotomy. There has to be suffering for there to be happiness, there has to be loss for there to be gains.

on a related note:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=40635.msg455710#msg455710

[Cairn]

the universe is an inverted paradox where every truth is a dichotomy. There has to be suffering for there to be happiness, there has to be loss for there to be gains.

on a related note:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=40635.msg455710#msg455710

Well quoted, Aramara. I would urge everyone to read that thread. These issues pop themselves up on a semi-annual basis...

[Rigwyn]

I think allowing things to happen gradually and without forcing them is key here. For example, if a character is trying to make a romantic move on yours, don't just say yes or not right away, but give them something to chase. Let your character's receptivity build or fall day by day. Make a choice only when your character meets a threshhold that makes sense for them.

If you are chasing a criminal, don't be afraid to lose their trail. You'll pick it up again.

If you fall ill and are rushed to the tainted tent way way out on the far corner of the lawn , be ill for a few days. Let symptoms develop or fade as it makes sense. Hand waving severe illness with the quaff of a potion looks... Well... Like something a child would think of likewise, expecting a potion to work immediately is kind of on the same level.

 
The way this ties in with consequence, is you let consequences kick in over time. Hold gripes, return favors, etc..

[Illysia]

Though I have been out of game for sometime now I think I have a suggestion that may help here. Rather than think of the problems that your character's face from the outside in, think of them from the inside out. Focus more on your character's personality and how that affects their personal problem solving skills than focus on how to solve a problem less or how to solve fewer problems.

For instance, Illysia and her sister Zandral never really got along. One way to fix that is to sit them down and have a heart to heart. However, that never truly happened because of the personality of each. Illysia is bossy and a "make you benefit yourself" kind of person which pushes Zandral away. Zandral is a task driven and mostly selfish person who can't abide Illysia's way of doing things which pushes Illysia away. Therefore, the tension between them continues despite relatively simple fixes. Also, it continues without being overly contrived.

Or, for instance, take Telnavi. Telnavi can't handle blood, guts, and suffering too much. Rather than focus on how to fix or prevent it, she withdraws from it. She's not a fixer by nature and she doesn't try to be. She doesn't feel it's her job to fix things and she just doesn't like focusing on negative things long enough to fix them.

Danao is, however, different from all three of them. In some respects, he will try to fix problems in his life; it's what made him decide to move to the Dome in the first place. Yet, he'll do nothing about the much more obvious issue that gives him trouble, people mistaking him for a woman. Rather than say change his clothes and cut his hair, he just sticks it out despite the grumbling. He doesn't resist changing because he is heroically trying to make a statement, he's just being a stubborn goujah about it. He'd rather try to wait out everyone else and grit and bear his way through it than change.

Each character reacts to problems based on certain quirks of their personalities. This creates variance because the problems that get handled and the ones that don't are unique to them, not decided by flipping a coin.

Just my two tria.

[Aramara Meibi]

There are life situations written into our characters, and those that happen to them from without. staying present in the mindset of the character is what RP is all about, and we shouldn't ask what action is appropriate, but what is appropriate for our character. Although I always kept a background rule for RP, that for the most part superseded all my player decisions, that the story should take precedent. I developed and kept this rule as a sort of safeguard against rp which fed my player ego. Because if the story was good, then both I and my fellow players benefited from an enjoyable experience, at least theoretically, I've had people complain. I tended to be pretty cruel towards my characters, because status quo bores me, because either people rise to overcome a challenge or they don't, and I guess that's the mark of a hero. So whether or not your character overcomes a challenge or setback or fails to, as long as the story is good and people are entertained is what matters, I guess is what I'm getting at.

[Rigwyn]

What's funny about this statement  above is that in real life, you'll see that some people adamantly make decisions on principal ( ie. their internal "rules" determine what they will "likely" choose )  while others are more flexible and will go with the flow, so to speak - doing what is easiest, or catering to the will those around them. You could argue that "catering to others" is a fulfillment of some submissive or passive "rule", but the point is, there is some difference in how we *choose to do things.

* That kind of hinges on the topic of choice and free will... but that's a discussion for a different thread.  :p

[Aramara Meibi]

Hey, my sun is in Aquarius, 'go with the flow' is written in my stars. The 'flow' in the special case of RP is the narrative. Creating conflict, drama, tension, challenges, dire consequences, all these drive the narrative. So it's a matter of feeling out the direction the story wants to go and going there intuitively. So if it makes more narrative sense for my character to lose a battle or suffer from heartbreak, then it becomes ok, even enjoyable for me to allow that to happen, instead of forcing a happy ending where it doesn't naturally belong.

Some submissiveness is vital to the health of society, but everything in balance, know when to assert yourself and know when to act passively. Any character trait taken to its extreme is unhealthy and unregulated. I imagine the kind of person who wears a different face depending on the crowd they're in, 'catering to everyone', is missing a fundamental authentic self-image. Know what you stand for and stand for it.

But that's RL, and likewise derailing the thread. this is a game and a gaming community, so there has to be give and take for everyone to enjoy the game. My point is that by taking your ego out of the experience and making your decisions based on something larger and more abstract, such as 'the community' or 'the narrative' could allow you the player to let your character to suffer the consequences and still enjoy the game.

[Susanna]

the universe is an inverted paradox where every truth is a dichotomy. There has to be suffering for there to be happiness, there has to be loss for there to be gains.

on a related note:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=40635.msg455710#msg455710

Sorry if this is off topic, but i feel the urge to comment on that statement.
The way i see it is, that for example truth and lie are not opposites. A lie is a distortion of truth,
but truth is not a distorted lie. Likewise, bad is the distortion of good, but good is not the distortion of bad.
So it is a widespread myth to believe that these concepts are in effect the same and that in the universe there can't be one without the other.

But this game could give us the chance to re-think common concepts and find broader understandings.

Regards,
Susanna (Kaasha)

[Rigwyn]

I'm with you on truth vs not-truth, but I see good and bad as judgments that we make and not actual properties that something has. Ie. Darth Vader's actions correlate strongly with my personal concept of what "bad" is, so I say he is bad. Likewise, he correlates strongly with what most folks in my community would call bad. A different community with vastly different values might not label him as "bad" but as "good" , "heroic" or whatever.

Truth is an interesting topic, but I fear we are slipping away from the original post. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth

Truth, it is said, consists in the agreement of cognition with its object. In consequence of this mere nominal definition, my cognition, to count as true, is supposed to agree with its object. Now I can compare the object with my cognition, however, only by cognizing it. Hence my cognition is supposed to confirm itself, which is far short of being sufficient for truth. For since the object is outside me, the cognition in me, all I can ever pass judgement on is whether my cognition of the object agrees with my cognition of the object. The ancients called such a circle in explanation a diallelon. And actually the logicians were always reproached with this mistake by the sceptics, who observed that with this definition of truth it is just as when someone makes a statement before a court and in doing so appeals to a witness with whom no one is acquainted, but who wants to establish his credibility by maintaining that the one who called him as witness is an honest man. The accusation was grounded, too. Only the solution of the indicated problem is impossible without qualification and for every man. - Immanuel Kant, Critique of Pure Reason 

[Siteya]

I was so happy to see this post today, it soothes my nostalgia for a populated roleplaying PS.

I come from a theater background, you are given a script, unlike PS, so you know already what your characters actions will be and exactly where you will stand on stage. With a script, the art is in developing your characters motives. The best teacher I had when I was studying character development, was skilled in the art of deflating the personal ego you bring to your  character. He  asked what the limitations of your character where, what underlying damage motivated your character, he made you step away from a glorious performance and your personal limitations, or intentions to bring depth to your portrayal, he made you go beyond yourself to create an authentic performance.

The challenges we face in PS...

We are a small community, with all sorts of glorifying magics, we want to support others role plays and character motives all the while appease our own motives and stories, and we can do that easily when we can fix it all up clean with a chosen magic way.

We try to balance interactions, in an infinite ongoing world, with characters dropping in and out, huge gaps in ongoing story lines,  in a story that potentially have no end....my heart goes out to all the abandoned married characters, wondering when their lover will ever return.

we have an incestuous community that becomes far to supportive of each other IC, in its limited populace. Our characters work out their differences, eventually bond and thus run to save each other out of sentimental love that has developed over time.

We need more baddies to create conflict and sabotage IC sentimental love, this is an understatement.

Our characters need to live with the choices they make, with no exceptions or potions or magic to set it back to right again. 

We need to let go of characters we spend to much time with and stretch our imaginations with new characters...sometimes our characters should just die from boredom.

There is a redundancy of know it all characters...oh how I crave interactions with flawed and limited characters...

We also must remember the more we play, the more we are invested in story lines, and this gives us a feeling of ownership in how the story shall play out...not necessarily godmodding, but more of a repeated cycle of rp deja vu, this has the potential to trample other folks who may have something to offer to the solution or chaos and possibly surprise you. Go into the roleplay with the intentions of always playing a supporting role.

and of course we all need to log in to do all of that...

This message was fueled by punchy insomnia.

[Eurac]

I believe we are babysat far to much, I myself would be very happy to see the relaxation grieving rules, limited looting of player kills but most of all the complete removal of the pg13 status. This I feel would encourage group activity taking us away from the individual rp I see so much of.

[Jilerel]

PG13 removal is a great idea. But still, things like cybering etc should still be forbidden.

Simple example. I was on a GTA SA:MP RP community, swearing was a common thing and created a lot more realism on the reactions of the people.

[Volki]

This game is PG-13 in relation to online sexual interaction.

PG in relation to swearing, both from players and the game.

G in relation to how much you can offend other players.

Unrated in relation to violence and gore.

Get your shit together, PS.