Feelings and responsibility

[Aeghiss]

"We want diversity!" Yet you believe European cultures do not exist or do not deserve to exist. You kill cultures, you kill diversity. And you're importing cultures which follow a conqueror religion.

Do you have the slightest idea what creates culture ? Diversity and exchanges.
Do you think European cultures are perfect how they are and shouldn't evolve anymore ? That would be very pretentious of you, and I doubt any European artist would agree with you.

And you're importing cultures which follow a conqueror religion.

Do you really think Islamic culture has taken a more important part in French culture than American culture has ? Allow me to laugh at you if you say yes...

"We need immigration for the economy!" Okay, but here's another, better idea: incentivize your own citizens to marry and procreate. Stop with the anti-sex feminism and celebrate traditional families.

I will marry if I please. And if so, no-one but me will decide whether it's a he, a she, or even a non-binary gendered one. And in case I marry someone I can have children with, we'll be the only ones to decide whether we have some, okay ?
By the way, your talk about anti-sex feminism would surely make my (feminist) sister and her friends a lot. Well, it makes me laugh too.
Oh, and if you don't remember : we're about 7.5 billions humans on the planet. I think it's already much more than necessary and we don't need to make more children.

And just fine with taking in millions of refugees* instead of trying to stop the conflicts

Well, pardon us not to send our presidents and secretaries of state ten letters a day... Which wouldn't give us any more control about the situation. As for Le Pen, I doubt she'd improve the situation at all.

"We tolerate people of all kinds: gay, trans, all races, and religions!" Yet Islam is on the rise, and it's the most intolerant of the mainstream religions. It's like the most backwards version of Christianity on steroids. Condolences to the liberal upper-class Muslims who have reformed their faith, but the vast majority has scholars who actively work against reformation and keep them in the stone-age of religion.

I don't know details about Islam at all, but I think conservatives are mostly the noisiest ones. Oh, and by the way, there are extremely conservative Christians and lay Europeans too, and I wouldn't call your praise of traditional family reformative either...

It's like most people have heard these contradicting lines so many times they've forgotten what a contradiction is

Well, it seems you forgot too.

[Mairon]

Lambs to the slaughter.

[gonger]

I take it you took in all of the mainstream journalism on Le Pen and didn't consider they might be lying.

I'm in favor of reducing empires to rubble before they are made permanent. I'm in favor of the exact kind of policies necessary to protect citizens over non-citizens. I'm in favor of no European cultures going extinct in the way Macron wishes they have.

Why revolt? Because your governments are actively working against its citizens. Some of the most amazing contradictions arise from European progressivism.

"We want diversity!" Yet you believe European cultures do not exist or do not deserve to exist. You kill cultures, you kill diversity. And you're importing cultures which follow a conqueror religion.

"We need immigration for the economy!" Okay, but here's another, better idea: incentivize your own citizens to marry and procreate. Stop with the anti-sex feminism and celebrate traditional families.

"We want peace in the Middle East!" But you're just fine with Saudi Arabia. And just fine with taking in millions of refugees* instead of trying to stop the conflicts, or even admitting who the real aggressors are in the conflicts themselves. This even leads back to "needing immigration", which presents some incentive to want conflict and more refugees.
*(Most are economic migrants.)

"We tolerate people of all kinds: gay, trans, all races, and religions!" Yet Islam is on the rise, and it's the most intolerant of the mainstream religions. It's like the most backwards version of Christianity on steroids. Condolences to the liberal upper-class Muslims who have reformed their faith, but the vast majority has scholars who actively work against reformation and keep them in the stone-age of religion.

It's like most people have heard these contradicting lines so many times they've forgotten what a contradiction is and expect it to be mainstream for party policy.

Care to backup any of your claims with reliable sources? Thank you.
Until then, just one thing about Le Pen: My French is probably even better than my English. I live and work in Luxembourg, and speak French every day at work. So I had on numerous occasions the enormous displeasure to hear or read racist comments from her own mouth in news, internet, youtube. Since you believe that "most [refugees] are economic migrants", it is obvious why you defend her by attacking the media. I trust your French is also very good, if you judge about French media...

[LigH]

From some point of view, every refugee is an "economic migrant": Because most reasons to flee from their homes (wars, hunger, climate change based natural disasters) were caused by the greedy economy of the leading industrial nations. Sustainability would have kept migration low; but our heaven made their hell, so there is no surprise that they want their share of our cake. We should have shared already before they starve.

[Rigwyn]

Ehm... I don't think that's the case with Syria. I'm no expert, but I think the timeline goes something like this:

Religious/political dispute leads al-Assad to use chemical weapons on his own people. (Dick move)

People fight back

Major countries support opposing sides. Sadly, its not a simple good guy vs bad guy situation.

Supporting the rebels means supporting Isis while supporting Assad is similarly evil. Walking away from the whole mess is not really an option either.

Shit storm ensues.


We dont owe these folks anything. Their country was kind of messed up to begin with and based on how they are behaving in europe, I'm willing to bet they were somewhat responsible for assad's initial gas attack.

[LigH]

Good. So there are even less people to blame for seeking shelter.

Of course, there are always some "opportunists" among the desperate. But claiming that they are the majority is not based on facts.

[Rigwyn]

They don't all need to be criminals. You only need a small percentage to bring havoc to an otherwise peaceful and civilized country. Likewise, it only takes a little bit of feces to contaminate a huge supply of drinking water.

The other problem is with cultural values. Having a lot of people who think it's ok to treat women like dogs is a big problem in countries that view men and women as equals or at least close. In addition to this, consider their values with regard to non-muslims.

The issue here isn't whether or not crime rates have risen as a result of the refugee invasion or why Germany is not only closing their doors but is now sending tnem back. The issue is how long will civilized people pretend that this is not a real problem. How long will people make excuses for all of this crap? And it's not just germany, nobody wants these folks.

If the refugee invasion was a good thing, then everyone would be taking them in and encouraging them to stay. Is that what is happening now? Is that why Germany needs to force EU member countries to take their fair share?

It looks more like the refugee crisis is analogous to a soggy, shit sandwich. One that everyone is obligated to eat.

[Aeghiss]

If the refugee invasion was a good thing, then everyone would be taking them in and encouraging them to stay. Is that what is happening now? Is that why Germany needs to force EU member countries to take their fair share?

It looks more like the refugee crisis is analogous to a soggy, shit sandwich. One that everyone is obligated to eat.

Your thinking is way too simplistic. First, there are always people to refuse things, even when most others consider it good. Second, there are much more people around here who are willing to welcome refugees than what you seem to think. To take that Germany example most of you take, Pegida aren't the only ones who demonstrate, there are pro-migrants demonstrations too. There are people who teach migrants how to speak German, or French, or whatever language they need to learn to communicate in the country they currently live in, there are even people who welcome migrants in their own houses.

[LigH]

Not only the arrival of migrants splits the country, but also the decision about integration vs. deportation. Especially Bavaria is notorious for a lack of common sense. There was recently a riot of students trying to keep the police from deporting a co-ed right out of the lecture. And that's just the extreme case, the number of companies protesting against deportations of trainees expecting a permanent contract is incredibly high already. And where are they deported? To so-declared "safe countries of origin" like Afghanistan, where our minister just even missed an assault during his visit. The government talks about integration but seems to prevent it as much as possible. The few known criminal migrants can't be deported due to various reasons (lack of documents, lack of cooperation in their countries of origin, supposed illness, or their disappearance), so instead some of the most cooperative and best-integrating migrants get deported, as if they have to achieve a quota. You will find several petitions on e.g. change.org.

[Mairon]

Actually, the plan is really simple. Europe was just too smart to be controlled and policed as hell, so globalists first poisoned Europeans` minds with social marxism in the sixties, and then began to open the borders for the migrants to interbreed with the native population and by that lower their IQ substantially.
One should boil the frog gradually, right?

[Aeghiss]

Actually, the plan is really simple. Europe was just too smart to be controlled and policed as hell, so globalists first poisoned Europeans` minds with social marxism in the sixties, and then began to open the borders for the migrants to interbreed with the native population and by that lower their IQ substantially.
One should boil the frog gradually, right?

Ahahah ! Magnificent conspiracy theory Mairon. Well, still a conspiracy theory...

[Rigwyn]

Actually, the plan is really simple. Europe was just too smart to be controlled and policed as hell, so globalists first poisoned Europeans` minds with social marxism in the sixties, and then began to open the borders for the migrants to interbreed with the native population and by that lower their IQ substantially.
One should boil the frog gradually, right?

Marion has a point, but I think it was more likely to be a series of unfortunate events.

You guys in Europe will be kicking yourselves in the ass 30 to 50 years from now when you realize what an irreversible mistake it was to let the refugees invade. Better to drive them out now before people start getting attached to them.

In the US, we have something called an anchor baby. That's when an illegal immigrant deliberately gets knock up by a local or vice versa. If the baby is born on US soil, the baby becomes a US citizen and I believe the illegal does too. It's a way to cheat the system.

I'm sure you guys aren't seeing a rash of pregnancies and weddings over there, right?

[gonger]

and then began to open the borders for the migrants to interbreed with the native population and by that lower their IQ substantially.

I really hope you were just expressing yourself poorly there.

[Aeghiss]

You guys in Europe will be kicking yourselves in the ass 30 to 50 years from now when you realize what an irreversible mistake it was to let the refugees invade.

Please keep your xenophobic hasty assumptions for yourself, alright ?
You're doing precisely what I can't stand at all : telling others what to do because of your own fears/hatred.

[netforce10]

Aeghiss, If one fears something should they not try to prevent that which they fear? I would also like to point out you are doing exactly what you yourself hate, You tell someone to shut up just because you hate what he is doing. (I hope you don't consider that as offensively)

In reality, this is all we have effort for on the forums it seems, ungrounded shouting from both sides. Telling them they are not right and that their reasons are wrong because I don't agree with them. In short, all anyone is doing seems to be shouting at the opposition how you are right because of course you are and the other side is wrong.

That's often simply the nature of these things, ofcourse it's good to discuss topics with a political nature, as otherwise you might very well become an echo chamber, but I don't belief this forum is suited for anything productive on this particular topic at this time.