US Election 2016

[cdmoreland]

What most seem to miss about this election is that Americans in the heartland think our government is broken, which it is. It has gotten to the point that one cannot take a dump without the government telling you how much water you can use to flush. When the government pays people not to work many will never try to find a job. That makes them slaves of that government and when the money runs out they either die or do whatever they are told to do.

Socialism has been tried many times and always fails. The early Christians tried, the Pilgrims, and the hippie communes of the '60s  and '70s. Good ideas don't work unless everyone puts their all into it. The problem is that there are those that want a free ride or feel that they contribute more than others.

The American Dream is being crushed by our own government and people have finally begun to wake up to that.

[Calmus]

A socialism or communism like system could work. If not today, perhaps in the future when artificial intelligence and machines do most of our work. Scienties believe a superintelligent AI could be about 2 to five decades away, with a 50% likelihood or something like that I read in some book.

If it is not a socialism like society by than, very few people (or even robots) will own almost everything. Even today the eight richest people own more than the poorest half.

[Aeghiss]

@cdmoreland : The problem is, when people are fed up from their governments they tend to vote for extreme right-wing... Which never makes things better. :<

@Calmus : Even coming from a country more left-winged than the US (France), and even being quite the left-winged type myself, I don't believe in communism at all. It's too much of an utopia.
And as for AI... Do you really believe we can develop a society with more and more machines and better and better AI for these machines, to the point humanity almost don't have to work anymore, without having the machines contest it ?
If it comes to the point that robots equal fully-grown humans, I don't think the situation would last long... Why, you'll ask ? Because, it would be kind of creating a new triangular trade, with the only difference these new slaves would be made of metal and wires instead of flesh, and that we'd create it.
The farer AI comes, the closer we are from coming to a point where it will actually be sentient. And if we make it to this point, we'll have to acknowledge them rights.

[Dilihin]

I`ll back it up by one word, Dilihin: USSR. (Google is your friend)
The point is that under socialism you won`t be sitting here on the forum writing posts and discussing things. You will be starving to death in a gulag, where there is certainly no internet.
The "care about people" thing is just a smokescreen. If you are old enough to start discussing such a topic, you should probably realise it too.

I think your point was more like "Communism has never worked before and is likely to fail." Communism/socialism is very great idea itself and its totally fine to idealize it, it just hasn't worked well before (thought USSR worked definetly better than the old tsar system so it was improvement to old clearly)

[Mairon]

You don`t get it, mate. The power will never belong to the people, but to the "privileged elite" who are most definitely mindcontrolled by the Black Flame (well, I won`t mention how it`s called in RL, `cause there are even laws against it (free speech my ass) but it is full known as well) with the only difference that under socialism/communism you`ll be more oppressed and that will be for real. But if you think USSR wasn`t that bad and Stalin dindu nuffin (as well as all the other assholes), then maybe it`s the way to go!
Anyway, to implement a fair socialist system you need great inner change of consciousness and conscience in most people. People are lazy and stupid. Nuff said.

[cdmoreland]

Mairon, you are right, but there are many of us in the USA that understand that and we will keep fighting for freedom. "God bless the republic, death to the New World Order! We shall prevail!"

btw, Trump is no "right-winger" by any stretch of the imagination. Many fear he is not far enough to the right.

[Dilihin]

Mairon, i wasn't saying it wasnt thst bad, but things actually got better in there with communism, not enough of course but was clearly a improvement to old country. Only reason stopping communism is because how selfish and stupid humans are.

[MishkaL1138]

Mairon, you are right, but there are many of us in the USA that understand that and we will keep fighting for freedom. "God bless the republic, death to the New World Order! We shall prevail!"

btw, Trump is no "right-winger" by any stretch of the imagination. Many fear he is not far enough to the right.

So he's just an idiot?

[cdmoreland]

President Trump was a Democrat  for most of his life and he is not a small government advocate. My hope is that he can return some powers back to the states. The best I can say for him is that he is a capitalist and not a socialist.

[Aeghiss]

Mairon, you are right, but there are many of us in the USA that understand that and we will keep fighting for freedom. "God bless the republic, death to the New World Order! We shall prevail!"

btw, Trump is no "right-winger" by any stretch of the imagination. Many fear he is not far enough to the right.

So he's just an idiot?

I'd rather say a madman. A dangerous madman. Even for those of us who aren't from the US. His absolute lack of any sense of diplomacy could lead to explosive consequences, be it through a conflict with Europe, Russia, or, more probably, with China - their relations already began deteriorating.

[Mairon]

He`s a psycho, that`s obvious. They all are.
But at least he`s not going to blow the whole world up in nuclear hellfire immediately just because some hackers changed their IPs to Russian ones.
His bosses (or, should I say, owners?) know full well they are not going to endure the level of radiation even in their underground shelters, that is if the globe won`t crack like a nut. It`ll be worse than Fallout - the Earth will most likely resemble Mars.

[Volki]

I don't have a response at the moment since I'm lazy, but I just want to pop in to say that somehow you guys are having the most reasonable discussion of politics on a forum I've seen in a long time. lol

[MishkaL1138]

I don't have a response at the moment since I'm lazy, but I just want to pop in to say that somehow you guys are having the most reasonable discussion of politics on a forum I've seen in a long time. lol

Maybe because we all agree with the same thing. Mostly. But what the hell do I have to say in this? I'm not even a US citizen. Also, meme time:

[Calmus]

[...]

@Calmus : Even coming from a country more left-winged than the US (France), and even being quite the left-winged type myself, I don't believe in communism at all. It's too much of an utopia.
And as for AI... Do you really believe we can develop a society with more and more machines and better and better AI for these machines, to the point humanity almost don't have to work anymore, without having the machines contest it ?
If it comes to the point that robots equal fully-grown humans, I don't think the situation would last long... Why, you'll ask ? Because, it would be kind of creating a new triangular trade, with the only difference these new slaves would be made of metal and wires instead of flesh, and that we'd create it.
The farer AI comes, the closer we are from coming to a point where it will actually be sentient. And if we make it to this point, we'll have to acknowledge them rights.

If we progress further with AI intelligence research through the next few decades, I believe it's very likely that (Artificial) Superintelligence will end all our intellectual work. Superintelligence will be the last invetion we have to make. Thats the opinion of some scientists, such as Nick Bostrom and Sam Harris.
Interesting TED Talks of those:
https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_bostrom_what_happens_when_our_computers_get_smarter_than_we_are
https://www.ted.com/talks/sam_harris_can_we_build_ai_without_losing_control_over_it

[Mairon]

As a person who did some minor programming, I respectfully disagree, Calmus. However, just to some extent.
A machine, no matter how advanced it is, is just a set of programs shaped in a particular sequence.
It`s not the AI itself that is very likely to wipe us from the face of the Earth - people will ensure this themselves via the minds of those who will create the AI in the first place. And I have a feeling that the moods and intentions of such creators correlate pretty well with the stereotypical machines` idea of destruction of the human race.