Author Topic: US Election 2016  (Read 5200 times)

LigH

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #120 on: January 31, 2017, 09:41:24 am »
I am not rich enough to afford a conservative opinion.

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MishkaL1138

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #121 on: January 31, 2017, 09:52:45 am »
She disobeyed him. What do you expect? Of course he fired her stupid ass. I would too.

Worthiness? Dude, it sounds like you are reading a lot of news from the political left. In the us, the vast majority of the mainstream news outlets are heavily biased towards the left. To get a balanced view, you need to read news from the right too.

Who wouldn't disobey him? Only lobbyists loaded like he is, who know nothing abou the lower and middle classes. And don't make me laugh about being biased towards the left. What left wing do you have in the US? Do you even know what true socialism is? We're fed up on it in Europe, but if we complain about a soon to be fascist dictator is for a good reason - we've had some of those already.

You're one to speak about non-bias. You're using Trump's same strategy of supporting your arguments on castles in the air, with barely no sources except when you're called out on your crap, and then you scramble to find something quick that you think will make us shut up. Meanwhile, mortgages are raising, honest workers are getting more difficulties to keep working and even live in the US, and your lower and middle classes are growing even poorer - and that just in 8 days. Suit yourself.

But don't call us biased, when you most decidedly are, too. You are henceforth barred from using the bias argument, so we can see if you can support your points properly without it.

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MishkaL1138

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #122 on: January 31, 2017, 09:58:33 am »
I am not rich enough to afford a conservative opinion.

And you, stop egging him on, and contribute with a well thought post instead of trying to flame him for your own fun!

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

Rigwyn

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #123 on: January 31, 2017, 10:09:31 am »
She disobeyed him. What do you expect? Of course he fired her stupid ass. I would too.

Worthiness? Dude, it sounds like you are reading a lot of news from the political left. In the us, the vast majority of the mainstream news outlets are heavily biased towards the left. To get a balanced view, you need to read news from the right too.

Who wouldn't disobey him? Only lobbyists loaded like he is, who know nothing abou the lower and middle classes. And don't make me laugh about being biased towards the left. What left wing do you have in the US? Do you even know what true socialism is? We're fed up on it in Europe, but if we complain about a soon to be fascist dictator is for a good reason - we've had some of those already.

You're one to speak about non-bias. You're using Trump's same strategy of supporting your arguments on castles in the air, with barely no sources except when you're called out on your crap, and then you scramble to find something quick that you think will make us shut up. Meanwhile, mortgages are raising, honest workers are getting more difficulties to keep working and even live in the US, and your lower and middle classes are growing even poorer - and that just in 8 days. Suit yourself.

But don't call us biased, when you most decidedly are, too. You are henceforth barred from using the bias argument, so we can see if you can support your points properly without it.

You asked for a citation and I gave you a bunch. Was that not enough? Should I Google some more for you or are you able to do that yourself?

As for left and right, when we speak of the left in the us, we are speaking of democrats and liberals . They are left of Center. When we speak of the right we are talking about republicans and conservatives. More commonly we refer to communists as communists and socialists as socialists.

I don't claim to know what it's like to live under socialist rule. I just know it's something that I would not want.

Not sure what your issue is.. are you just breaking my balls or does your butt hurt?

Oh, ps.

You biased, bro? Kek




LigH

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2017, 10:28:11 am »
As for left and right, when we speak of the left in the us, we are speaking of democrats and liberals . They are left of Center. When we speak of the right we are talking about republicans and conservatives. More commonly we refer to communists as communists and socialists as socialists.

This may be one of the main reasons for confusion in trans-continental political discussions: The same word may have different meanings to different audiences. And in addition, different people will have a different opinion where they see a center on the political scale. Originally, "left" and "right" was merely the position of the seats in the parliament...

Contributing with a well thought post about what "left" and "right" political concepts mean to me is not easy. Certainly it would reach a "tl;dr" amount. Summing it all up to only one attribute won't be valid; but as a most important, I see "left politics" as rather related to altruistic motives (supporting the common wealth), and "right politics" as rather related to egoistic motives (supporting the personal wealth). And if I am not completely wrong, then the recurring reports of a widening gap in the society seems to confirm that the previous politics was mainly "right", and conservative politicians want to conserve this gap.

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MishkaL1138

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #125 on: January 31, 2017, 10:29:02 am »
I didn't need any googling to know your sources weren't precisely concise. Your center is what we call the right in Europe. The european center is what you'd call democrats. What we call the left you'd call communists, what we call center you'd call them socialists. You'll never live in a socialist rule, no matter who you vote.

I am neither breaking your balls not being butthurt. You never address the main points in our arguments when you're afraid we might be right, and resort to mocking us and trying to justify yourself.

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

Volki

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #126 on: January 31, 2017, 11:40:05 am »
Quote
Summing it all up to only one attribute won't be valid; but as a most important, I see "left politics" as rather related to altruistic motives (supporting the common wealth), and "right politics" as rather related to egoistic motives (supporting the personal wealth).

Wow. No.

I'm going to speak about the United States' left and right in general terms, not all-encompassing. The right is individualist. The left is collectivist. The right's version of altruism is charity. The left's version of altruism is socialism. The right focuses on negative liberty. The left focuses on positive liberty. The right is closer to libertarian. The left is closer to authoritarian. The right focuses on economics. The left focuses on welfare.

@Mishka, socialism already exists within the United States.

Also, the fear of socialism is well-founded, especially for a country which was relatively immune to its spread but was able to witness the eventual horrors it wrought upon the countries from which many of our families left not so long ago. The entire premise for socialism in the sense of Marx is anti-liberal, anti-individual, and authoritarian in its judgement. Europe was very taken with the concept for a long time. Being that America was fairly isolated, it did not view socialism as "the norm" and was better able to see the connections between socialism and European conflicts and tragedies. Not to say that capitalism does not have its issues, but capitalism does not force "utopia" upon its citizens.
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cdmoreland

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #127 on: January 31, 2017, 01:13:24 pm »
I am not rich enough to afford a conservative opinion.

I'm too poor not to be conservative! I have the freedom to keep trying and it would be a lot easier without the government regulations making it almost impossible. People won't be dying in the streets if we dial-back the ACA aka Obama Care. The goal of helping people up is noble but the current system put in place by Progressives makes it hard to get off the government tit.

Rigwyn

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #128 on: January 31, 2017, 07:28:54 pm »
I didn't need any googling to know your sources weren't precisely concise. Your center is what we call the right in Europe. The european center is what you'd call democrats. What we call the left you'd call communists, what we call center you'd call them socialists. You'll never live in a socialist rule, no matter who you vote.

I am neither breaking your balls not being butthurt. You never address the main points in our arguments when you're afraid we might be right, and resort to mocking us and trying to justify yourself.

btw - i wasn't trying to shoot you guys down. Typically I ignore points if i agree with them and comment on the ones i disagree with. If this comes across as dodging then I'll try to make more of an effort to explicitly state the points i agree with.

The butt hurt comment was just me being a troll for shits and giggles... I can't help doing that now and then.  :)

Ralas

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #129 on: February 01, 2017, 10:50:35 pm »
Why are we still arguing about this?  The US has been overtaken by a treasonous, fascist coup.  Even those of you who were pro-Trump prior to the election must see that by now.  Now there is nothing left to do but civil disobedience.
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Rigwyn

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #130 on: February 02, 2017, 03:40:18 am »
Why are we still arguing about this?  The US has been overtaken by a treasonous, fascist coup.  Even those of you who were pro-Trump prior to the election must see that by now.  Now there is nothing left to do but civil disobedience.

Oh come on Ralas, I enjoy a good debate, but I can't have fun with you if you just use emotionally loaded words.

There was no coup. Mr. Trump won the electoral vote even though the DNC and the Democrats cheated. What the Democrats are trying to do right now is a lot closer to an attempted coup than anything else. Admit it. The Democrats and Liberals would love to stage a coup right about now.

While it's trendy to call people who you do not like "fascists" nowadays*, I don't think that's the best match. We do not have an authoritarian government and we have freedom which does not work with fascism. We also have the ability to impeach a president if need be which happened to Hillary's husband for lying under oath just like Hillary did years later. He was impeached, but not removed from office.

Treason? No, however Obama giving 200 million to Palestine ( Israel's worst enemy ), the Iran nuke deal, the 1 billion+ dollars John Kerry subsequently gave to Iran, and Hillary's acceptance of huge amounts of money from foreign countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar via her fake charity, her fake news and the MSM's fake polls are not technically treason, but are damn close.

LigH

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #131 on: February 02, 2017, 03:50:24 am »
Apropos trendy ... "he did not lie, we just didn't (want to) believe him" worked in Germany in 1933 just as well as in the USA in 2016. Let's hope the result won't be the same. Or ... no. Not hope. Prevent it.

For your entertainment, here are some Propellerheads.

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« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 03:52:34 am by LigH »

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Rigwyn

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #132 on: February 02, 2017, 04:11:10 am »

Ralas

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #133 on: February 02, 2017, 12:01:18 pm »

Oh come on Ralas, I enjoy a good debate, but I can't have fun with you if you just use emotionally loaded words.
*Accurate, descriptive words.

Quote
There was no coup. Mr. Trump won the electoral vote even though the DNC and the Democrats cheated. What the Democrats are trying to do right now is a lot closer to an attempted coup than anything else. Admit it. The Democrats and Liberals would love to stage a coup right about now.

There was in fact a coup.  Trump has essentially admitted to collaborating with hackers who were working for Putin.  The Russians released their "dirt" on her and spread anti-Hillary propaganda (most of which was easily debunked by anyone literate).  Trump also collaborated with Comey to to re-open the investigation the week of the election, thus reminding the public of the whole emails "scandal," only to then admit that there was nothing there.  All of this was intentional to lead the sheep who have been hearing Hillary slandered for so long that they don't question it anymore into voting for the most unfit candidate of all time.

Quote
While it's trendy to call people who you do not like "fascists" nowadays*, I don't think that's the best match. We do not have an authoritarian government and we have freedom which does not work with fascism. We also have the ability to impeach a president if need be which happened to Hillary's husband for lying under oath just like Hillary did years later. He was impeached, but not removed from office.

Muslim Ban Executive Order, Anti-gay, "religious freedom" executive order, Bannon (a KNOWN anti-semite) having anything to do with the presidency whatsoever, DeVos, an anti-education person in charge of education, a climate change denier in charge of the EPA, refusal to obey court orders declaring his executive orders unconstitutional, the prohibition of government scientists speaking out (seriously, follow the rogue nasa twitter)... The list goes on.  The point is that Trump scapegoated  Muslims and Latinos to gain favor.   Because the "us vs them" mentality is simple and appeals to the simple-minded.  Remember who else used it?  If you don't think this constitutes fascism then you need to look the word up.

Quote
Treason? No, however Obama giving 200 million to Palestine ( Israel's worst enemy ), the Iran nuke deal, the 1 billion+ dollars John Kerry subsequently gave to Iran, and Hillary's acceptance of huge amounts of money from foreign countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar via her fake charity, her fake news and the MSM's fake polls are not technically treason, but are damn close.

Have you been to Israel/Palestine?  As a Jew I have.  I'm as pro-zionist as anyone but the only solution is a two-state solution.  I saw barely clothed people on dirt settlements among ancient buildings behind giant barbed-wire fences.  Palestine is not a country and thus you cannot call them Israel's worst enemy.  It is unfair to let the worst of them (Hamas, the PA) speak for them.  Yes, those two organizations are evil.  But that wouldn't stop me from feeding emaciated children either.

As for all the fake charity stuff--I would appreciate sources.  I've heard these claims quite a bit, but it grows tiresome having to google and debunk every piece of anti-Hillary propaganda the Russians produced.  So far nothing has  held up to a simple googling, but i'm gonna give you a bit more credit and assume you have a credible source, of which I would appreciate a link.  It hardly matters now anyway.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 12:33:52 pm by Ralas »
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Aeghiss

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Re: US Election 2016
« Reply #134 on: February 02, 2017, 01:39:40 pm »
She disobeyed him. What do you expect? Of course he fired her stupid ass. I would too.
Let me remember... Are the US Trump's personal company ? Is he an almighty God ? Have civil servants to agree with the President on any topic ?
Hmmm... I don't think so.

Dude, it sounds like you are reading a lot of news from the political left. In the us, the vast majority of the mainstream news outlets are heavily biased towards the left. To get a balanced view, you need to read news from the right too.
Let's prove us you read/watch/listen to news from the every political opinions. Then you'll have the right to give that argument again.
But oh well... I'm sure you don't, and it would be nonsensical to do that anyway. It doesn't make sense to try reading just every newspaper you can get. And the result would be that you get several people sharing divergent opinions... You'd only get a bunch of contradictory more or less biased opinions on facts, and no clearer mind on the things...
What can you do to get a pure, absolutely neutral viewpoint ? Nothing. To try determining what is honest and what is biased, people can only use objective facts (like that), and logic.
My courses include English oral tests every two weeks. Those are based on US or UK newspaper extracts, on which we have to react. We don't always have left-winged newspapers. Nor always right-winged newspaper. Does that mean every info we get is neutral ? Of course no. And we have to use our own mind to make up our own opinions on the various subjects.
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