Collision Dectection, Dynamic Shadows, Bumpmapping

[Abemore]

Originally posted by Drilixer
no I *humbly* disagree -we need collision detection for players.  I dont like walking through other characters.  And walking through monsters during battles is just as annoying.

I agree.
Wolves and such should be able to realistically tackle you.
Oh, and not to mention... 50 gnolls should not be able to occupy the same space at the same time as it is in that joke of game, everquest.

Also, If there were a bunch of players packed in an area, I should be able to [just by moving forward] shove my way through the entire group in no time at all.

[Wedge]

Collide with enemies, yes of course.  Players no though, or if you are immobile you can get moved out of the way very easy.  I mean otherwise people could set up a wall to block someone from getting somewhere... he he he, that would be pretty cool actually.  But with the potential for lag and stuff, it really isn\'t a good idea, that is gonna use up a lot more resources I\'d think to do player to player collision with any sort of realism.  It just not enought to make it worth it, like this stupid NPC system they are so insistent on.

[Havena]

Aye, I agree collision detection between combatants is a good idea. You want to be able to press hard-up against you enemy and slash them with a knife, without risk of lunging straight through them and waving your weapon in thin air. Also 50 [insert monsters here] should occupy space, block your way, and not be able to all stand in one spot together.

However I maintain that player to player collision detection in towns etc. is not practical. You want to be able to move freely around the city without a crowd in a silly place getting in your way. Realistic \"jostling\" through a crowd would be impractical to implement and could be detrimental to the fun and freedom of the game.

[Abemore]

Explain the impracticality of \"jostling\" through a crowd.
I do see your point.  Crowds can be a nuisance.  But allowing 50 players to occupy the same space is simply poor game design, whatever the intentions.

The only acceptable solution is to allow walking/running through crowds with other players glancing off your shoulders.  This will also allow a wonderful way for people to annoy each other.

[lostprophet]

If a player is immobile they should be easily pushed out of the way, but if they are moving they shouldn\'t, so if someone goes off to make a cuppa they don\'t block up a doorway.

About the rain, the super-cool rain effect in metal gear solid 2 was done by having two models for all the buildings and characters, a rain one and a dry one. Rather than waste processing power by calculating the collision detection of the thousands of raindrops, simply make a different model that would appear as if rain was bouncing off it. When it started raining, the game would use this model set instead.

[Havena]

That\'s a great optimisation concept for rain contact

Originally posted by Abemore
Explain the impracticality of \"jostling\" through a crowd.

I see two possibilties of \'jostling\'. One where the players would be momentarily displaced or \'bumped\' by passing players, and the second where your char is actually moved out of the way by a character walking through them.

It would take a lot of extra bandwidth and code optimisation to implement these with all the extra data it would involve.

The \'moved out of the way\' possibility also has the added danger of griefing via players being knocked of ledges/walkways and having to walk all the way back up again, or even dieing when/if fall-damage is implemented.

[elminster]

Well, one of the developers of the new renderer said, that it will be ready in June, 2003. Well, according to this, don\'t expect it to be out in the next few months.
The greater problem is, that there are many other open-source LGPL 3D engines out there, which already support a lot of neat features, like vertex and fragment programs, environment mapping, realtime shadows, etc. They already support these for at least half a year, so Crystal Space is a bit slow here. Some of these engines are neoengine, tenebrae, sylphis3d, ogre (no shadows for this one though). They are all cross-platform too BTW. I just hope CS devs won\'t make the release date of the \"new renderer\" too late, as then it might come out titled as another \"old renderer\".

--
Greetings,
E.

[Abemore]

Originally posted by Havena
I see two possibilties of \'jostling\'. One where the players would be momentarily displaced or \'bumped\' by passing players, and the second where your char is actually moved out of the way by a character walking through them.

ok, lets do the first one.  So they will be momentarily displaced then return to their original position.  So no griefing by pushing off ledges.

It would take a lot of extra bandwidth and code optimisation to implement these with all the extra data it would involve.

are you on crack?  you are, aren\'t you?  ya crazy crackhead.

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elminster, those other engines don\'t seem to have a lot of game developers using them.  CrystalSpace has a huge list.  This must say something about the quality.  (p.s. I like OGRE\'s design philosophy)

[sashok]

I like the idea of colission of players, monsters, but I dont like the pushing idea.

lets say you are standing on a cliff, or bridge, or doing something important like a quest and somebody runs through you and you bounch to a side, falling off and dying.  that don\'t sound like fun.

[kyp14]

I like the idea of colission of players, monsters, but I dont like the pushing idea.lets say you are standing on a cliff, or bridge, or doing something important like a quest and somebody runs through you and you bounch to a side, falling off and dying. that don\'t sound like fun.

well you would design it so according to where you are differrnet things would happen

A crowed alleyway your player would push through the crowd with his hands and other characters in the way automatically step out of the way and then step back as you walk past

somone in a door way would have an animation where the player trying to get through   pulls them out of the way  your player walks through and then they step back to where they were

If your near say a cliff or dangerous area eg lava pits  the player your trying to get past will simply step out of the way your player walks through and then they step back

The push command doesn\'t need to be literally a push

[Terro]

i have to say this about the shadows... get rid of them!!! if there is anything that works your card more its shadows since they basicaly come from everything... or maybe there should be an option to turn them off

[Wedge]

How bout\' let\'s just run the whole game using the ASCII renderer and call it done!

[Drilixer]

Originally posted by Terro
i have to say this about the shadows... get rid of them!!! if there is anything that works your card more its shadows since they basicaly come from everything... or maybe there should be an option to turn them off

they should certainly be in the game with the ability to turn them off - of course shadows arnt the only thing which are fun but should be able to be turned off - rain and snow are two great examples of graphics that are fun at first but if the player\'s computer isn\'t up to par should be possible to be turned off

[Nazeroth]

lol my god, just imagine running through a crowd, ppl would get hit aside or step aside and then the person who got hit aside would make the person behind him get hit aside or step aside then the person who just got hit aside would make the next person behind him jump out of his way or get hit aside, then ud have the people who now have to step aside or get hit aside to aviod that person, and before u know it there will be one huge dominos effect coming out like a wave in the crowd lol. Now times that by 20 because other ppl would be doing the same thing as u, trying to get out. Man out THAT would be something to see. anyway the point to this little story if u didnt get it already is that pushing would be a bad idea, altho to make it realistic u could always have say u walk into someone and they\'ll just move there shoulder automaticly or they\'ll get hit and just get shuved side ways, not actuly moving tho, then again ud have ppl\'s charactors have spastic attcks coz there would be like 20 ppl around them in a crowd lol. All in all, player collision is a no no.

P.S. maybe some time in the future when collision in computer games r a bit more smarter it\'ll happen tho.

[kyp14]

well as far as I knew if you pushed somone in a large corwd there would be a domino effect but yeh your  right unless PS has a physics engine like Half Life 2 it wouldn\'t look that great

as for the shadows they should defintelly be in there you should just be able to turn them oof
same with bumpmapping and vertex and pixel shading