If there are no levels...

[Wedge]

I\'ve been thinking about it, and a scout skill should be something that you would really have to put some skill points in to for it to work right.  The better you are at the skill, the more information you can reveal about a person.  Since I think it would be real cool if the game had a bit of an espionage involved, making information a commodity is an element I haven\'t really seen in any game before, yet is a very logical thing to have.  Also perhaps a listening skill that lets you hear someones /tell and /guild messages if you are nearby them, there could be spies in the game.  I know that sounds like an invasion of privacy, but the devs seem to really want to promote a roleplaying atmosphere in the future, so you really shouldn\'t be discussing much that doesn\'t concern the game while in-game (obviously that isn\'t something that applies at this point in development of course).

[Abemore]

Originally posted by shangralah
im sorry i like this game alot and hope for it to be really good but if there isnt gonna be lvling theres no point of putting monsters in the game i dont think ill like it too long without lvls ....

you have to ignore shang sometimes.  he says things without thinking.

[Jefka]

dungeon siege was more like diablo but improved the skills you used the most ; well in the end you had a level upgrade but it\'s was not that usefull

I like just what ravencrowe said, which was exactlyy that skill upgrading would stop hardcorse gamers, or spoilers to my opinion, to get in touch with you and say : hey i\'m 42 level and you, you poor 12 level !

I mean, it stops competition, it makes people wanna spend good time in the game ; like gta vice city, cause there you progressed in a world without always going further in the scenario, you just took your time as you wish

I want to take my time, enjoy the world, not run like hell for some points ; it\'s a game, not a contest ; skill developping goes this way ; )

[Drilixer]

Originally posted by Abemore

Originally posted by shangralah
im sorry i like this game alot and hope for it to be really good but if there isnt gonna be lvling theres no point of putting monsters in the game i dont think ill like it too long without lvls ....

you have to ignore shang sometimes.  he says things without thinking.

har har har!!!

another problem:  Idon\'t like cookie-cutter character builds and scouting skill would be necessary for duelists... making dueling a little less original since everyone would inevitably get that skill (andmaybe even the anti-scouting skill) - but if such a skill were instead put in the form of scrolls that players with scrollmaking and scoutingcan make a player made market could be developped (which would always have the dueling communities support and give the guilds something to do beyond bickering )

[Wedge]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha youl\'d be making character sheets of the players, that seems so funny to me for some reason... OK wait now it doesn\'t.  But yeah that\'s what I\'m saying, information should be an industry.

[Drilixer]

the scouting scrolls should be a completely player made commidity so that we can even force the duelists to work together with the craftsmen and other players  -  what duelist in there right mind would substitute a good combat oriented skill for scouting when he can just buy a scouting scrolll froom his merchant friends?

[zabeal]

I for one think that everything should should upgrade when you use it, with most things building off of some simple actions. For example, with all items you could look at it to get a quick description, or examine to get all the details that your charactor can know. This however would take a whole minute of sitting there, doing nothing else, and everyone could tell you are doing it. Then, this would be expanded to players, so that you could look at some one to find out what there race is, and maybe which is there highest skill(without giving a value). Then, examining a player would give you alot more info, but they would be alerted that you are trying to examine them, and all they have to do is walk away before the minute is up, and you find out nothing. Or something like that.

[Drilixer]

people often make the fallacious assumption that adding a timer to a skill will balance it - for spells and weapons this may be correct since damge/time is tantamount in combat - but out of combat such timers quickly become tedious.  Anyonne who has ever played everquest remembers the timer inn shops when you wan to see an item\'s stats... caused some very long and tedious shopping trips.  I doubt I am the only character who preferred to run around in newb gear or naked just because shopping was so slow.

[Wormtail_]

Wait, can\'t we use the \'Scout\' ability to examine the statistics of monsters, too? Otherwise, how would you know if something is too strong to go up against other than just looking at it? Which is, of course, not the best of ways to get an adequate measure of the power of something else.

As for the timer thingy, perhaps as time goes by, you get more descriptive information on the character. A quick glance will just tell you a quick glance\'s worth of informtaion, while a long study will give a long study\'s worth of information. I like the idea of getting better at a skill as you use it, as you are practicing the skill. Perhaps being more skilled at the \'Scout\' ability will have getting more accurate results and less time to find those facts out.

As for tedious shopping, I may have a way to make it less tedious. This would be for the stores to already have a description of each item near it. Therefore, the stores will be providing \'Customer Service\' while the customers in turn actually buy stuff from it, instead of going around naked or in newb gear.

More ramblings and rantings...

[druke]

is it just or would it be interesting if the \"consider ability\" was just not implemented, the only thing to your judgement is what you can se eon them. Alot of great books and movies have beenw ritten with things like that, if you were for say in a guild war you could have your guys disquise as part of Monkeths \"tradeing org.\" and sneak in, no conisders no name tags, or perhaps your consideration changes based on what you are wearing,

consider- to look at something and judge how powerfull something is based on what it looks like

[Drilixer]

problem with that is - high level wizards would be running around naked challenging nOObs to duals and then utterly destroying them

[Muzzle]

I think a \"consider\" command is necessary... or maybe not even a separate command; just look at a player/monster and it tells you how \"tough\" he/she/it appears.  The heuristics for this would be pretty simple; lots of MUDs do it.  It would, of course, be cool for players to have a \"sandbag\" ability to fool other players.

As to the problem of knowing who not to challenge to a duel, I assume there will be an option of dueling just for sport, without killing or property changing hands.  If this is done (and the whole \"arena\" idea seems kind of silly otherwise), it just seems obvious to keep a persistent ranking table.  So you\'ll know not to challenge guys with ranks way higher than yours, and if you do, all you\'ll get out of your severe thrashing is embarrased.

[Drilixer]

Originally posted by Muzzle
I think a \"consider\" command is necessary... or maybe not even a separate command; just look at a player/monster and it tells you how \"tough\" he/she/it appears.  The heuristics for this would be pretty simple; lots of MUDs do it.  It would, of course, be cool for players to have a \"sandbag\" ability to fool other players.

As to the problem of knowing who not to challenge to a duel, I assume there will be an option of dueling just for sport, without killing or property changing hands.  If this is done (and the whole \"arena\" idea seems kind of silly otherwise), it just seems obvious to keep a persistent ranking table.  So you\'ll know not to challenge guys with ranks way higher than yours, and if you do, all you\'ll get out of your severe thrashing is embarrased.

I\'m afraid I got lost reading this thread - so i read it again - and got lost...  you do understand that consentual PvP duals and guild fighting will be the only way to PvP in Planeshift right?  That is not debateable in the slighest.  The problem is that the duelists need some way to gage their strength versus the other persons and Planeshift doesn\'t have the ease of just telling levels like other games.

[Muzzle]

...  you do understand that consentual PvP duals and guild fighting will be the only way to PvP in Planeshift right?  That is not debateable in the slighest.

Yes, that is exactly the premise I based my comments on.  And I wouldn\'t want it any other way.  Actually, I\'m even working off the possibly-incorrect premise that these duels (and BTW people, that\'s \"duel\", not \"dual\") will only be fought in some central arenas or whatnot, not just out in any old cave where two toughs stumble into each other.  I\'m also assuming that it will be a choice to fight just for fun, or to show off, without grave consequences for the loser, and/or that some stats will be kept about who\'s the best fighter in the arenas.  So just don\'t challenge people who are doing much better than you if you want a chance to win.

The problem is that the duelists need some way to gage their strength versus the other persons and Planeshift doesn\'t have the ease of just telling levels like other games.

And my point is that I don\'t really see how it will be a huge problem.  Of course, I haven\'t seen much real information other than \"no free PvP\" and \"no levels\" (both commendable ideas IMO), so I might just be full of it.

[Drilixer]

Quote:
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The problem is that the duelists need some way to gage their strength versus the other persons and Planeshift doesn\'t have the ease of just telling levels like other games.

And my point is that I don\'t really see how it will be a huge problem.

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Alright if you don\'t get it yet... lol - the problem is that we are trying to think of a way to minimize grief players tricking new players into fightng them and then destroying them - for example in most games new players are deathly afraid of fighting high level guys - we don\'t have that apprehension in this game to stop them from fighting the \'big guys\' inadvertantly