Weapon Type/Weakness

[Wedge]

I don\'t know if this has been mentioned before, but one of the things I\'m always trying to think of is ways to promote diverse character types.  This here pertains to making the weapons the players use more than a matter of aesthetic preference and general power of the weapon.  I think all weapons should be classified with a range (short, medium, long, missile), weight class (light, medium, heavy), and blade type (blunt, piercing, cutting, any others?).  And with that in mind, all enemies in the game should have logical weaknesses against a certain blade type; this idea comes primarily from Vagrant Story.  Weight class would affect a players accuracy, so more nimble enemies would be easier hit with light weapons, while heavier more powerful weapons would be used against slower more well armoured weapons, kinda like in FFX.  The range part I\'m not totally sure about, other than long and especially missile type weaponry would be best for hitting flying enemies, and enemies otherwise out of range.  This way though, every player in the game won\'t be just going around with a sword, since they will find those ineffective against certain enemies.  And again here, this promotes playing in groups instead of alone, since you can\'t fight with more than one weapon at once (well.... I don\'t think there are fighting styles that support a dual wield with a rapier and a hammer ).

[Caldazar]

I like this idea, and I would also like different beasts to be resistant to different kind of damage.
For example, an \"ent\", is weak to cutting attacks (axe), but rather strong to crushing (hammer/mace) and slashing (sword etc.) attacks.

[Wormtail_]

I like this idea as well.  However, I think that stronger creatures can wield the heavier weapons with more ease than weaker creatres. Also, I am not sure if it will promote group travelling on a large basis, as some could carry several weapons in reserve. What I mean is something like this: A person is adventuring, when he comes across a pack of bandits. He shoots arrows( piercing damage, I think) at them, and fells one or two. By then, the bandits are near him, so he reverts to another weapon, say, a spear. And then when they get too close, he gets to a mace or sword, whichever one the bandits are weaker against.

However, the problem with the above would be the time it takes to put away a weapon and draw another, but just dropping something and drawing usually doesn\'t take much time.

As for range, I think that they could be applied to the same as melee weapons and longrange melee weapons. If I am saying this right. Anyway, range weapons could have things like percing damage (arrows/bolts?), blunt (stones), among other things. Just weaker, though, compared to their melee counterparts. I think that flying creatures could have the same rules applied to them as their melee counterparts (about weakenesses/strengths), and be there to encourage archery/magery.

[Wolfmane]

I think all weapons should be classified with a range (short, medium, long, missile), weight class (light, medium, heavy), and blade type (blunt, piercing, cutting, any others?).

Nice thread Wedge! I agree with your ideas and the purpose of trying to promote a diversity of weapons actually used as well getting players to adventure/quest in groups.

An idea I think could be added to this suggestion is a weapons proficiency classification. By that I mean that some races would have a naturally higher proficiency with some weapons rather than others. A Klyros will not be very good at using a sledgehammer or ball-and-chain. In the same way a Kran would be pretty crappy with a bow and arrow. This would enhance this experience of weapons variety (make it real in gameplay too) and encourage players to choose a variety of weapons as they get a proficiency advantage if they choose weapons well suited to their character\'s race.

Let me know what you ppl think of the idea. Maybe we can develop a weapons classification based on the ideas in this thread to propose to the dev team.

[Wedge]

Yeah I should have mentioned that part to, you couldn\'t just easily switch between weapons because there would be proficiency in weaponry type, although it would refer to the fighting style for a weapon as opposed to the blade type.  Because you don\'t fight the same way with a polearm as you do a dagger.  Categories for proficiency would be divved up something like; dagger, 1-hand sword, 2-hand sword, polearm, hammer, axe, bow, etc.  No weapon type would have all 3 blade types in it\'s category though, and the ones with 2 types would generally be weaker in 1 type than the other.  Something like that was in Vagrant Story too, you all should really play that game, it had some of the greatest statistical combat balance of any game ever (and it totally rules otherwise as well).

[Isgrimnur]

Great ideas about weaponry. So at the moment we have:

Weapon Type: Dagger, Axe, Sword etc
Range: Short, Medium, Long, Missile
Weight: Light, Medium, Heavy
Damage Type: Blunt, Piercing, Cutting
Race Proficiencys: Adv/Dis per race

And I would Like to add:

Extra Weapon types: Thrown weapons (Knives, Axes, Spears)
Secondary Attack: Spears can be thrown etc but will only work well with weapons designed to be thrown (Throwing Axes and Throwing Knives)
Recovery Time: Time it takes between attacks (affected by wieght and type as well as characters speed and strength)

[Wolfmane]

Great summary and additions Isgrimnur! Wedge I think we should use these classification categories and your and wormtail\'s ideas to make a table where we put the posts on the one axis and value/descriptions on the other. Then we can play around with ideas and values and post it on a webpage as image and link it. That way we could all get an overview at one glance and we would make a lot more progress.

[Caldazar]

I would like to add one more damagetype: Slashing. I think that axes etc., are cutting weapons, whilst swords and things that resembles the sword are slashing weapons. Agree?

[sekhmet]

Yes I agree as well on trying to promote diverse type of weapons. After all it\'s kinda hard to kill a skeleton warrior with some piercing weapon like a bow for instance. But everyone should be able to learn to handle any type of weapon if they just practise it enough and they have adequate strength to wield the weapon.

For dual wielding weapons skill I think this is a must, but offcourse this should be a very advanced skill only for the best of warriors and they should be able to learn another skill then that teaches them to parry with the second weapon.
Maybe the weigth of the 2 weapons could be counted together to see if a person is able to wield that second weapon then(strength). Cuz it\'s a lot tougher to wield 2 weapons that weigh each 20 kg for instance, while a Long sword/ dagger combo might be possible for the player.

And you forgot:
* whipping.....needs no explanation (:
* bludgeon....crush somebody\'s skull with your morning star
* piercing weapons should be devided in 2 category\'s:
    *piercing weapons.....spear for instance
    *piercing weapons that allow backstabbing......daggers

[Wolfmane]

Good additions sekhmet,

This thread id developing some really good ideas. Anyone want to make that table, I\'m a bit snowed under with things to do but would assist if someone takes up the task.

[Wormtail_]

I agree with everyone, as weapon diversity is indeed great. I am convinced that this encourages groups. But this post is meant to create some more additions to the weapon types.

CPerhaps there could be an \'other\' weapon type. Because ropes could fit in the whipping skill, but what about torches? Sure, they may not be intended as a weapon, but they still have fire damage. Staves would fit into the bludgeon skill, I think, unless anyone would like to correct me if I am not correct. Magical weapons with extra attacks require the pierce/slash/etc. base, even though they have magical attacks, but that would go into the realm of the Uber. Or so I think.

[Drilixer]

as long as every weapon is in the end just as good as any other type of weapon of it\'s quality (for example an Uber axe may be slower than an uber sword... but does more damage) then any weapons system will work just fine...