Author Topic: The Future of Planeshift  (Read 3249 times)

Xalthar

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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2003, 07:06:19 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Gronomist
People can fight in groups, share the XP/whatever they gain because of group things, but the XP/whatever should be (dramatically?) lowered when grouped, simply because you\'re now more people to share the fixed amount of XP/whatever, and you\'re able to kill bigger mobs which results in you get (dramatically?) more XP/whatever than you would do alone and ... Well, that was simple, wasn\'t it? :D


The xp from teaming shouldn\'t be lowered very much, since that would seriously discourage teamplay! I know that from the early version of Anarchy....

Rakurai

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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2003, 10:02:05 pm »
I\'ve always liked the idea of encouraging team play by giving grouped characters an experience bonus, something along the lines of 20-30% maybe.  Of course, this still means it would be divided among the members.  Numbers again, it\'s still only afternoon, I almost have one eye focused on the screen:

Group composed of 3 players, A, B, and C, kill something, the group receives 100 exp.  20% bonus for grouping, 120 exp.  Assuming they split it equally, that\'s 40 each.  Yes, I know, this is a pretty simple concept, I\'m just used to being misunderstood.

SnowWolf

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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2003, 01:07:33 am »
how long did it take me?

lol, I started at 2am and finished at somewhere around 5:55 so I didn\'t even bother going to sleep

kinda sad when you replace sleeping with writing mathematical equations for a computer game

ahhhh, to have a life :)


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SnowWolf

zaphar

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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2003, 01:19:37 am »
very good discussion guys

Here are some of my thoughts

One. Regardless of grouping status you should get exp everytime you do an action. with higher amounts for successful actions vs. non-successful actions That action may be casting a spell or swinging a weapon or just punching something.

Two.  If the objective is to get a exp boost from grouping there are really two ways to possibly accomplish this.
-  you could give grouped people a higher likelihood of a successful action in the fight. this translates to more exp for grouped people but only according to their cooperation in the battle.
- or you could just give an across the board exp boost to all members applied to whatever activity they did the most or divided among all the activities according to their percentage of use in the battle.

Personally I think the first one is the best.  The rational? Being gouped basically gives you a better chance of being successful in an action because your enemy has to divide his attention between you. Thus your more likely to get off a spell or get past his shield or punch his lights out before he can resist, block or dodge. Also this system would work to nullify things like killstealing for exp. Since killing the mob isn\'t necessary to gain the exp just trying to will accomplish it. No one can steal your exp by stealing your kill. In fact the only thing actually gained by having the kill is the loot.
*Zaphar grins roguishly as he exits the post


Griever

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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2003, 09:31:48 pm »
I want to ask something about the Future.
Will the game be everytime for free ????
Will nobody have to pay to play the Game ???
I am wondering abot that because thats the first gme I have ever seen, that looks sooooooo good and is free !!

THX Nico

Jaxan

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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2003, 11:52:31 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Rakurai
One thought...  would you only receive experience if you actually killed the thing?  If you fight for a while and then flee, haven\'t you learned a bit about combat regardless?


I think you should gain xp for every sucsessful hit you land, or evey time you dodge/parry and attack. More xp for hitting a quick monster, and a bonus if the hit is really crushing (big bonuses for 1-hit kills). Of course this would have to depend on damage done, so you couldn\'t gain way to much experience for doing 3 damage to The Scary Dragon fourty times. This way even if you must run, you get the proper amount of experience for what you\'ve done. (a power comparison between you and the monster would be needed to decide how much xp per hit)

Healers/spellcasters gain xp per spell, perhaps even getting experience for individual spells, as well the overall type-of-spell stat.

Like said above, if you stand in the battle area you would get experience too. I think the idea of 75% you, 25% group is great.

-Jax

Nanuke

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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2003, 01:19:41 am »
Yes it will be free! :)
hopfully a soon to be member of the Arcane Order :]

Griever

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COOOL
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2003, 02:21:01 am »
Thats greate, really you guys are greate !!!
I LOVE YOU, hehe or better your game ;)
(If I could play it this dam problem...)

SnowWolf

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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2003, 03:43:06 am »
I like the xp for everything idea, assuming of course that it was a very tiny amount.... I\'m not sure about one hit kills though, then you could just go around mowing weak enemies meant for newbies and getting crazy xp - maybe that idea could be mixed in with the length of battle idea and changed to bonuses for killing things that are your strenth fast - or something like that....

My question though - should general \'xp\" be giving for doing actions or skill specific xp? In other words should xp earning for mowing down baddies for an hour be able to be put into say, cooking, or should the xp go directly to what you earned it for? For instance punching things makes your punches stronger, taking damage brings up stamina, losing hps raise health, etc, etc, etc.

I personally prefer action specific xp, especially since this is a skill based game, but I\'m not sure about the logistics of having that many types of xp... Then again you could just skip the xp and just buff the stat, but then you\'d have crazy stat inflation.... Maybe use a variable array like for every 100 or 1000 or whatever sub strength points you get, you recieve one point to strength? Would that be do-able?


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SnowWolf

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« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2003, 03:58:10 am »
Oh yeah, and on the subject of grouping...

Perhaps if you had xp for every action you could just scale the ammount of xp for each group member you have as any action you make (conceiveably) helps your group, attacking, healing, etc.

I was reading somewhere, in some book on being a DM, that really, people should get points for just being in a battle, as your very presence brings up the odds of a group winning, the idea that you could do something.... Besides that, your being there might make a MOB act differently, etc....

Also, you could have a running tally of everything that everybody does during the battle and then give xp prizes for first, second, third... for the most productive member - althought I don\'t know where it would go if xp went to specific stats...

That brings up another question - if we decide to go with stat specific xp do we eliminate \"experience\" all together or keep it as it\'s own stat since the experience of player does affect the outcome of a battle.... then again you could just put that under wisdom or intelligence....

Any thoughts?


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SnowWolf

Rakurai

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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2003, 05:10:42 am »
a thought, since this is a skill based game...  let\'s say, first off, that exp is not a general statistic, but each skill has its own exp level.  you gain exp in a skill each time you use it.  the amount you get is determined by how much of a threat is immediately upon you.  if you\'re a spellcaster, healing yourself while sitting in town with no one around won\'t make you get better at healing very quickly.  but, doing it in a high pressure situation, while a horde of orcs is charging down the hill at your party, will increase the amount dramatically.  the reasoning is, that you\'re not just repeating the same old method of casting that you learned in mage school, you\'re frantically trying to do it as fast and as well as possible.  the same would apply to combat-specific skills, if you swing your sword at the single pathetic little kobold, you won\'t learn much about using your sword.  swinging it while a dragon is breathing down your neck (doesn\'t matter if you\'re swinging it *at* the dragon, the threat is still there) will make you better, faster.

this solves a couple of problems.  it helps to eliminate botting, since practicing without the threat of death gives little to no experience.  the game stays skill level and not character level based, which all in all makes more sense than some games, imho.  there are probably more upsides than i\'m listing, depending on your point of view.

the downsides...  well, i\'m not very good at picking out flaws in my own logic, but i\'m more than happy to listen to people with different points of view do it for me ;)  one thing i see is that it changes how characters can choose their path.  rather than gaining a level and saying, \"hey, i\'ve always wanted to be a little better at the fireball spell, i\'ll dump some points into that\", they only get better at what they use and practice with.  i\'m not sure if this is a bad thing, but it does require more determined efforts by the player to advance their character the way they envision.  care would have to be taken to make each skill useful, because players won\'t use stuff that\'s not.  without some planning you could end up with a lot of very similar characters.

let\'s throw grouped characters into the mess.  simple, really, when a member of your party performs a skill, the other members gain a small amount of experience in that skill, by watching.  this does away with a set figure like 20% bonus exp for grouping, because it now has it\'s own benefits, that of watching others perform their skills.  this also works out for guilds... let\'s say that there was a skill that involved fabricating widgets.  your guild decides that they must make thousands of widgets for the upcoming annual widget sale.  the guild gets together at the hall and goes on a widget making spree.  you get better at it faster, because you\'re able to see others do it.  in a more realistic sense, the characters are sharing their knowledge and new ideas about widget making, something that is tedious to roleplay and almost impossible to factor into experience through roleplay.

anyway, there\'s my rant for tonight.  loving the discussion, by the way :)

Rakurai

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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2003, 05:43:04 am »
actually, another thought.  assuming that PS is skill level based and not character level based, that leaves it without a good way of increasing stats like strength, or hit points or magic points or whatever.  hey, cool, found a flaw in my own logic.  anyway, those could be tied to skill levels.  say, a skill in blacksmithing could give +1 strength per skill level.  just a thought.

also, someone pointed out to me that related skills could be tied together.  say, you have a spell for shooting lightning bolts out of your ass, how much different could that be from shooting fireballs out of your ass?  increase in one would increase the other, with ratios depending on which skills they are.  also, btw, i think that spells should have individual skill levels, rather than just being good in the \'red magic\' group.  maybe skill in red magic could be an average or something, or all red magics tied together like said above, but being able to cast one of those spells very well shouldn\'t mean you can cast all of them equally well, despite the similarities between them.

Ziros

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« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2003, 03:17:23 pm »
in answer to what to do with the experience bonus from a group, why not just boost the rate at which you gain experience in a group by 20% or whatever? This way you would still use the specific skill xp system, and be able to incorporate group xp without just lumping it into an unusable pile.

For example, 2 characters are in a battle with and average MOB. Each gets a boost in the rate at which he gains xp for using his skills. There could be a flat experience boost based on the difficulty of the MOB and the threat of the situation (far from town, more enemies nearby, etc.) This flat boost could be divided between the members of the group, depending on their skill level.

This would cover the problem of how to handle larger groups of pc\'s, as well as that of what the group xp bonus actually accomplishes.

Kiva

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« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2003, 03:32:55 pm »
Right, boost xp for everything just because you\'re grouped? .. Kliche, if you ask me. \"U wan group?\" or \"U wan party?\".... \"Err.. No?\" ... \"U wan party?\" ... It gets very tiring at some point. Nah, decrease xp when grouped, so you\'ll have to risk something to go hunt bigger mobs, that\'s the way it should be. :)
\"Somewhere over the rainbow...\"

zaphar

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« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2003, 04:04:55 pm »
As I said up above. No one should be able to get exp when grouped when they do nothing in the group. I suggested giving grouped individuals a higher percentage of successful actions while grouped this works out to more exp since you accomplish more in the group than you would alone.

Also Botting which is a possible problem in Skill Based leveling could be controlled by limiting the action to target based. certain actions would reqiure a target, no target no action. This keeps people from just setting their character to perform an action till they get better at it. Also, I don\'t think a particular fireball spell should have a skill level. I think the class of fire spells should have a spell level. thus performing one spell over and over would not up your skill level as eventually the spell would be too easy and you would never be able to progress in it. You instead have to learn an even harder spell to get better at that skill. This also keeps botting to a minimum. Target required and exp caps on an action. Those are my particular thoughts on the subject.
*Zaphar grins roguishly as he exits the post