Author Topic: Skill/Class System  (Read 1574 times)

sekhmet

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Skill/Class System
« on: August 24, 2003, 10:40:02 pm »
I\'ve had this skill system idea for quite some time now and it works like this:
Their are 4 sources to gaining experience in a skill:
* self-studie: reading books, tutorials, guides
Maybe we could advance skills a little if players read a book in a library or somewhere else that deals about a certain skill, a book might contain an old and forgotten proces to preform a skill better This reward should offcourse be one-time a book)
* training/teaching: a master can teach a pupil
Let\'s say somebody(player\'s and NPC\'s) has achieved a mastery in a skill he/she could chose to teach/train a player in this skill.
* observing: learn from seeing a skill being preformed
If you see someone preform a skill, you might learn from this and thus if you have this skill, again a small advance in this skill is granted.
* preforming: preforming a skill
Offcourse the best way to learn something is by doing it! This should be the best way to get experience in a skill.

Not each way is as effective,  you can not learn a skill from only reading books, you\'ll need to see it and preform it as well! Thus you could do something like this, example: \"A player could learn fireball to 20% from reading books, to 50% from observing, to 75% from training with a master and the other 25% can soly be learned by actually preforming it.\" So if his skills is at 60% he could still learn from 2 sources: training and preforming. Books and observing wont teach him anything in this skill anymore.

Ok next point, ALL players start with the same standard skills as every other player and they don\'t pick any classes or anything in advance! So only pick stats, race and appearance at char generation. They\'ll only get a few standard skills like: bare-hand fighting, listening, spotting, reading, training, observing and maybe depending on their race a different skill to earn some money with.

Split up skills in different trees, examples: \"Water Magic, Earth Magic, Fire Magic,  Wind Magic, Healing, Herbal Lore, Martial Arts, Slashing Weapons, Piercing Weapons, Black Magic, Thieving, Lore, Shielding, Proficiencys, ...and what more or else you think off.\" Skills in a tree follow up and sometimes branches split off, specializing in some other field in the same tree or even sometimes combining 2 or more skills from different trees! Let me try to show you by example: Player A learns in the Fire Magic Tree, 1st flaming ray, he gets this spell to 75% and can start to learn the next step in this tree, the next spell is a little stronger flaming rings maybe, again he gets this spell to 75% and then he gets 2 new spells he can learn, the tree splits. One side has maybe fireball the other firewall, he learns fireball this time. In the mean time he has picked up to learn slashing attack in another tree. Now becuz he can use a sword and has learned fireball he can learn a special attack flaming sword, this skills is a combination of 2 different trees; fire magic and slashing attacks. You could have people that combine for instance slashing and healing attacks that results in a draining attack or peircing and herbal lore could give a dagger with a poisened blade.

Some trees should be only possible to start learning once you have finished another tree. For instance a player learns the bare-handed fighting tree, he learns punch, kick, bash, etc. Only then can he start learning martial arts tree.

Depending on wat tree a player is best at, his title is given. This would replace a classic class system. For instance player A has achieved 25% of the fire magic tree and 35% from the healing tree he is titled the healer. If he would then learn 40% in thieving tree he would have thief or something as tittle.

Offcourse learning skills should be a slow proces, some trees should be really hard to complete taking lots of time to lean. Especially the magic trees.

Players that have mastered a tree should be able to train other players in this tree, maybe they could found a guild in their clan where they can train strangers for a fee and clannies for free or at a discount.


Well I hope everything is clear, the name trees is a bad and it needs to be replaced but it represents the structure of the system pretty well, different trees that in the top touch eachother and mix up.

Hope you like it (;

Drilixer

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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2003, 02:22:47 am »
Quote
Originally posted by sekhmet
I\'ve had this skill system idea for quite some time now and it works like this:
Their are 4 sources to gaining experience in a skill:
* self-studie: reading books, tutorials, guides
Maybe we could advance skills a little if players read a book in a library or somewhere else that deals about a certain skill, a book might contain an old and forgotten proces to preform a skill better This reward should offcourse be one-time a book)
* training/teaching: a master can teach a pupil
Let\'s say somebody(player\'s and NPC\'s) has achieved a mastery in a skill he/she could chose to teach/train a player in this skill.
* observing: learn from seeing a skill being preformed
If you see someone preform a skill, you might learn from this and thus if you have this skill, again a small advance in this skill is granted.
* preforming: preforming a skill
Offcourse the best way to learn something is by doing it! This should be the best way to get experience in a skill.


I\'m not sure about the stuff after that... but this part looks doable

lostprophet

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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2003, 12:13:15 am »
Yeah different ways of earning skills is a good idea, I didn\'t read on after that. Sorry, I just have a really short attentio...


Drilixer

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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2003, 03:05:09 am »
Quote
Originally posted by lostprophet
Yeah different ways of earning skills is a good idea, I didn\'t read on after that. Sorry, I just have a really short attentio...


haha - I have that problem as well... as useful as long posts are - no one ever reads them... it\'s too bad really but that\'s just the way it is... I used to write 5 page posts on here... (I really did)... but you get discouraged once people post after you and it is obvious that they never really read all the shit that you wrote

Kiva

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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2003, 01:28:17 pm »
Old ideas...

Sorry for being a pain but i hate being ill. X(
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Isgrimnur

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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2003, 03:21:05 pm »
The idea of skill trees seems to be an adaption of the technology tree ideas in games like Civilisation etc. Is that the idea??

Also I would suggest that if a skill is not used by a player then their proficiency in that skill slowly drops, this should stop players learning every skill to the max level making them nearlyb invincible which in reality is impossible as it should also be in game. (I think I posted this idea somewhere else)
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Drilixer

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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2003, 02:31:49 am »
From what I\'ve seen I don\'t think there are skill tress in Planeshift... although I would vote for them if it were possible...

sekhmet

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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2003, 04:46:22 pm »
Isgrimnur:
I haven\'t played civilisation, so I\'m not sure how that game works but. But it is well possible that game works the same cuz it\'s not an exceptional thinking line. I\'m just trying to approach things to be as much as possible like irl, if you would go learn kung fu irl, you would first master bare-hand fighting before you start practising with weapons. Spells and skills system should work like this as well, first master the base and then specialize.
And I do agree with you that if a player doesn\'t use a spell/skill he should slowly start to forget it.

Drilixer:
Thx for reading the whole post (; I proberly should have split up the long post in multiple posts to keep the people\'s attention, but I can\'t blame them, I\'ve ran into enough long posts that were a bunch of crap.

elscouta

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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2003, 07:24:14 pm »
I really like your ideas:
The different ways of training and the titles given when you have some skills is nice.

For skill trees, i\'m not for an 1/0 system where you can have a skill or not having it.

I think a nice way to use skill trees is to penalize the learning of a skill if his parent is not fully learn (and to slightly increase the learning of a parent skill when you train a child skill (not when you read/observe))

Exemple:
Basic magic allows Azure magic
Player has learnt Basic magic at 50%.  He reads the secret book of the Azure way (+30% at Azure Way). he will get only +15% at Azure way (30% * 50%). Of course, when he has fully learn Basic Magic, he will be able to learn the reamaining 15%

A tech tree for Magic (exp are relative and only for comparing skills)
+ Basic Magic (25 exp)
   |
   + Crystal way (50 exp)
   |  |
   |  + Healing magic (600 exp)
   |  |
   |  + Protective magic (200 exp)
   |
   + Azure Way (50 exp)
   |  |
   |  + Art of illusions (300 exp)
   [  [
   [  + Countermagic (500 exp)
   |
   + Blue Way (50 exp)
   [  |
   |  + Water magic (300 exp)
   |  |
   |  + Disease healing (200 exp)
   |  |
   |  + Divination (300 exp)
   |
   + Red Way (50 exp)
   |  |
   |  + Fire magic (200 exp)
   [  |
   |  + Power of Chaos (600 exp)
   |
   + Brown Way (50 exp)
   |  |
   |  + Life magic (600 exp)
   |  |
   |  + Earth magic (200 exp)
   |
   + Dark Way
      |
      + Death magic (400 exp)
      |
      + Art of Shadows (400 exp)
« Last Edit: September 14, 2003, 09:01:51 pm by elscouta »
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Aigon

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« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2003, 08:30:40 pm »
i think that what youve put sounds gud lot of thourght went into it and its different than what most games at the moment as theyy all have the same system and none are original i think ur idea is cool

Wedge

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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2003, 08:32:42 pm »
Sounds to me like someone isn\'t paying much attention to the system as it has been implemented so far, but I guess there are a lot of forum folk that have never acutally seen the game...

The ideas of different methods of learning are pretty ridiculous from a gameplay standpoint.  How do you read a book to gain skills.  You just have to go the library find the book and click \"read\"?  That\'s pointless.  Same for the training, the only way that could be implemented is basically the same as observing someone do it.  The observation idea is kinda OK I guess, but it wouldn\'t really have much an impact either way.

And the tree system is horrible.  It should be a free skill system where you will be able to do what you want, how you want, and there are no classifications for it other than your own.  Coming up with ways to combine abilities should be your own ideas and not handed too you.  Although I do believe there should be penalties for trying to learn very different skills, by causing your stats to make them nominally effective when combined, but I think that\'s another thread...
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elscouta

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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2003, 09:00:39 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Wedge
Sounds to me like someone isn\'t paying much attention to the system as it has been implemented so far, but I guess there are a lot of forum folk that have never acutally seen the game...

I know the actual system not because i saw it in the game (not working now) but because i read it in the help files. But the current implementation has nothing to do with this:
- different ways of training: this just ADD something so it is a patch to do on top of the actual system
- skill trees: same as above: this ADD requirements to the actual system.
- class name: nothing to do with the current impl

Quote

The ideas of different methods of learning are pretty ridiculous from a gameplay standpoint.  How do you read a book to gain skills.  You just have to go the library find the book and click \"read\"?  That\'s pointless.  Same for the training, the only way that could be implemented is basically the same as observing someone do it.  The observation idea is kinda OK I guess, but it wouldn\'t really have much an impact either way.

Books can be kept by guilds. So members of one guild will have a small bonus on non-members peoples. Training and books helps basically for newbies to getting started. That\'s why this way of learning should be limited

Quote

And the tree system is horrible.  It should be a free skill system where you will be able to do what you want, how you want, and there are no classifications for it other than your own.  Coming up with ways to combine abilities should be your own ideas and not handed too you.  Although I do believe there should be penalties for trying to learn very different skills, by causing your stats to make them nominally effective when combined, but I think that\'s another thread...

Note that i don\'t see trees really deep. For exemple, in magic there is only three level. The first one give basic knowledge that every mage should know: restoring mana... The second one gives only basic spell, easy to learn, that most mage will want to learn (minor healing, small fireball, ...) And the third level allows really powerful spells. That\'s not really different in fact from the current system: basic spells first then powerfuls one. It just allow more specialization.

Note: I have edited my tree to change some exp settings
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