Hisotry Always Repeats Itself

[seperot]

**raises mug**
 
call this thread closed and never to return from the gates of hell

**slams mug down in judge kinda way**

OK understand?

[Kiern]

Apparently not, and your violating your own ruling

[Izzy*dot]

*Tries to defy seperot by breaking his judgement*

Sowwy i feel like being a nuisance today...

[seperot]

**slams mug many times yelling**

Die thread die never come back ever EVER!!!!

thank you **bows and leaves**  

[Kiern]

ow...no need to yell...now my ears hurt ;(

[paxx]

This does raise a great issue, do we want ways for the guild to usurp power from their leaders? And if so how?  Democracy is not the only way, in fact we could have the leaders select their way of ruling. If a dictatorship, perhaps they can pick the method of removal?first a vote, then a challenge of some type, then something else?or it might have to be a 75% vote from the officers in the guild?

anyway are there any thoughts on this?

[seperot]

yes but not on this thread can you start a new one i realy hate this threadand just whant it to go away

[paxx]

I actually think this is a perfect example for why such a thing might be needed, more then likely I?ll make another thread?but it will refer here. In essence, while this list can be locked (perhaps a good idea) I hope it is read by most who plan on leading guilds (as an example of what not to do)

[Kiern]

I don\'t know paxx, that would make it just a little too hectic in my opinion, guild leaders have enough to worry about, and sometimes they change things which people may not like at first, so if they got rid of him right then they would not find out if it actually benefited them until after he is gone.  

Maybe if they could issue a \"challenge\"and then the guild leader accepts they could, but otherwise I think the members just leaving and forming their own guild would be a lot more simple and better way of doing things.

And besides, usually the guild leader created most of the guild and came up with the ideas, if he is an idiot it is the members\' own fault for joining that guild...

By the way seperot, the thread will die when it dies, your posting isn\'t going to change much, at least not with me...it is more annoying than anything.

[Moogie]

I agree with you completly on that, Kiern. It\'s not like a big episode like this will happen every day, after all. Besides, I don\'t see anything wrong with it... a new, potentially greater guild was formed out of the ashes of LW.

With paxx\'s suggestion, I think guild members would be continually ganging up on eachother to throw the current leader out and become leader themselves. Too chaotic in my mind.

[Tranor]

Hmmm chaotic but realistic...

[Kiern]

Not really, if you think about it the situations are totally different.  In real life (or fantasy books, etc.) the people actually have something to lose, possibly even their life (by death or even financially), if the overthrow fails, or even if it works...but in the game if it fails and your killed, you come back and start a new guild anyways.  

So, really, there would nothing to be stopping every guild member who is leaving to go ahead and try to get rid of the current leader, it is a great idea if it would work...but people always make a mess of things and ruin it.

Not to say it won\'t work, as long as there is some sort of system to prevent this, but I\'m clueless as to what that might be, unless I\'ve totally mistaken what paxx meant, although I don\'t think so.

[paxx]

No, there is not much to this at the moment. I am not saying coup every week, but say for some ?less chaotic? guilds, it would be first a vote of confidence ?takes a week or two, and then others can run for guild leader and see what happens.

In other guilds the guild leader can simply have it set to he is the supreme leader period.

For the more chaotic driven it could be, one challenge per month, mortal combat?leader picks the opponent ?from those that challenged him?  and sets the location and starting conditions  of the combat, and can have a champion.

What this means is the crying bastards would have to organize and have only one person make a challenge?


Anyway I am just spouting incomplete ideas here?see if there is any enlightenment.

For those who have played MMORPGs a lot and have dealt with large guilds?it would be nice for the leader to be current and involved. Many times I have seen the leader really not be involved at all in the guild. Other times they are great.

Just wanting to hear ideas and comments on this.

One thing to keep in mind is there will be a lot of investment for guilds, and the leaders will have a lot to do, but if they do it badly, it would be sad for all the members that have worked hard to certain ends now suffer under bad or none existent leadership who has not allowed officers to have access to certain guild features.

I don?t think this will affect any of the major guilds, but it may keep guilds together that would otherwise fold.

Also I think guilds should be lead by more then one person, or have Vice leaders that become leaders when the leader is not online.

But anyway think on it comment, I?ll give it more thought and spew my thoughts on the board later in a more organized format.

[Izzy*dot]

*sticks out his tongue to seperot *

Well paxx, in most MMORPGs it\'s like how Kiern says here, most members just go away and form their own guild...I think it is possible to work your ideas out, but indeed, the chaos will be huge in the first few months. What most people need, i think, is some time to get used to it. They always need time to get used, and after that, everythings OK.

What the problem will be, once you\'ll allow other people to throw their own leader out, it will be chaotic like moogie says, but i see another problem. The leader in question will lose popularity, he will lose a huge amount. So if he will want to join another guild, maybe that wont be possible for him. And if he makes another one, nobody will come, cuz they will know that he must be a bad leader cuz his ex-guild got rid of him. The meaning of Planeshift, of every MMORPG, is to have fun with it. But when nobody wants to know you, there won\'t be much fun aye?

Ofcourse you can also see this as a positive point, cuz the leader will have to work to bring his popularity up again...You see, even the possibilities are chaotic One one side it\'s a great idea..on the other..We\'ll see

[seperot]

Also I think guilds should be lead by more then one person

i agree with that point we have 3 leaders and it works great

as for the voting new leadeship thingy is it just me or whould that suck the fact that you made a website got the members delt with everything just to be replaced with someone else

By the way seperot, the thread will die when it dies, your posting isn\'t going to change much, at least not with me...it is more annoying than anything.

i know i give up on begging for this thread to die now no matter how much it annoys me it lives  ;(

I agree with you completly on that, Kiern. It\'s not like a big episode like this will happen every day, after all. Besides, I don\'t see anything wrong with it... a new, potentially greater guild was formed out of the ashes of LW.

i take that as a complement