Ordo Illuminatis

[lynx_lupo]

ah, yet another alignment discussion.  

Back on topic:
You have a very nice site, just the italics bother me... it\'s harder to read IME.

Oh, what are special awards? Why/to who are they given...?

[CadRipper]

The question is interesting, is a non-aligned guild behaving, macroscopically, like a chaotic one ?

But I think looking at the guild as a whole is meaningless, in this case anyway. For instance, in OI, each House is in charge for particular jobs. Saying the guild as a whole is xyz-aligned doesn\'t make sense, it depends on what kind of action you\'re considering. Is it about fighters ? Or crafters ? teachers ? Some Houses will probably act *a little as if they were* good-aligned, others as neutral.

I don\'t like generalising though, we\'re not asking people what alignment they\'ll follow before allowing them into their chosen House. It\'s just that some jobs may tend to be chosen by people thinking in a typical way, like fighters and teachers.

Draklar : it\'s exactly how I see it, thanks for the screenie (good game btw)

[mucera]

hmm yes.thats more or less what i said it to be:)

[CadRipper]

Originally posted by lynx_lupo
ah, yet another alignment discussion.  
Back on topic:

I think it\'s on topic, there are not many non-aligned guilds, and clarifying / discussing it is interesting, albeit I don\'t feel a real need to declare a strict alignment. Like Kada said somewhere else, we usually don\'t say openly how we act, it doesn\'t bring anything to the gameplay, quite the opposite IMHO. And on the other hand, I don\'t like boiling down a behaviour to two words, it is more complex and more dynamic that just that.

You have a very nice site, just the italics bother me... it\'s harder to read IME.

Oh, what are special awards? Why/to who are they given...?

Thank you for the feedback, Lynx, it is welcome. What browser are you using ?

The Special Awards are described when you make your mouse pointer fly over them. If you don\'t see the description in a tooltip, please PM me your configuration, so that we can fix that. Thank you again  :]
They will mostly be used later, as you can guess, probably and hopefully in Cristal Blue.

[Draklar]

hmm yes.thats more or less what i said it to be

i refer to this:

Originally posted by mucera
chaotic neutral is something like beeing selfish,not caring about black or white.

i\'d rather put that in true neutral as \'mind your own business\'

and yea, i can see your point, Cad
i guess that\'s right

[Luminar]

I\'d like to say something about the topic of alignments and I hope Kada-El excuses my doing it on her guild thread but since this was the site of a recent discussion so............... you get the idea:).

Anyway what I have to say is this:

It is foolish to try to define alignments. After all alignments are not about what you think you are. Its the way the majority feels you are. So I think it is a folly to decide on an alignment and try to fit its description or justifying to prove your belonging to it. If you think you are chaotic and another disagrees what difference does it make? You wont amend to fit their conceptions nor will they change their views to match yours. Lets just let everything be and everyone think what they want. It doesn\'t harm and more importantly you cant help it.

Since the alignment system is a ripoff from d&d i\'d like to register an observation I made. It is that no one bothers about what alignment they themselves are. If say \"Joe\" intentionally broke his neighbours window and got away with it. Now some might say Joe is chaotic evil others might say Joe is chaotic neutral and still others might say Joe was chaotic good if say this neighbour was particularly grouchy and confiscated the balls of kids if they happened to land in his garden. A long drawn philosophical debate might be carried on about this but the simple fact is does joe care? He just enjoyed breaking his neighbours window:). I guess my point is do what you want to and let the people think what they want. They cannot change you nor you can them so it hardly matters in the end.

With that I conclude my statement. I am happy if you agree and I gladly accept your judgement if you don\'t:).

[Draklar]

I do not agree
if Joe just enjoyed breaking the window, he\'s chaotic-evil
if he did that because this neighbour was particularly grouchy and confiscated the balls of kids if they happened to land in his garden then he\'s chaotic-good
it isn\'t how others see him, neither how he sees himself.
If he did that for fun then it doesn\'t matter that guy was grouchy and stuff. He still did it just for fun of destroying things, so he\'s chaotic-evil.

so yes, it\'s not what you think you are
and no, it\'s not how majority feels you are.
It\'s simply how you behave, what are your intentions.

[CadRipper]

Since I haven\'t done it before, allow me to welcome you here, Luminar  

I think you made your point quite nicely, and I can\'t agree more on this. Except that some people will actually pay attention to their chosen alignment or character definition, and stick to it in their behaviour, not the opposite.

It\'s their choice, if they do it right we can only admire them and enjoy playing with them. But unfortunately, this is also often badly used as an excuse to do anything that please them. In any case, it is not easy to keep consistent in one\'s behaviour when it has to correspond to an artificial definition, and it often ends up in a bad caricature of a character.

About guild\'s alignment, maybe we just have to see that as statistics, and maybe a way to help new people getting the whole picture more easily. But honestly I prefer to read their beliefs in details, when they care to state it on their website  

[lynx_lupo]

I\'m using Opera7.23. The descriptions are there, just had no clue I had to hover over the images to get them.

[CadRipper]

Originally posted by lynx_lupo
I\'m using Opera7.23. The descriptions are there, just had no clue I had to hover over the images to get them.

Right, we should put some kind of hint about that.

There are also a few things that need to be fixed, especially for Opera. Javascript is terrible for that, you have to manage the difference between browsers for most of the code.

Oh, and you won\'t see the transparency effect in the forums, with Opera or Netscape, too bad.  Maybe in a future release ...

[lynx_lupo]

Jep, a hint would be good.

Heh, Javascript is just fine... one has to sometimes disable pop-up blocking, though.
Read this:
http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=368

...so you just have to use standard functions etc...

The transparency are working.

[Luminar]

so yes, it\'s not what you think you are
and no, it\'s not how majority feels you are.

but it is what draklar the mighty thinks you are;).

 I am not going to get drawn into any debates. As I said:
 \"if you dont agree I bow to your judgement\"

plus OI wont appreciate if we cluttered their threads.

[Kada-El]

I think you have some very good points Luminar, and it is kind of on topic

Here\'s what I wrote on another thread about selecting alignments, I think it echos some of the points you made Luminar:

Originally posted by Kada-El
What is the actual point of having personal alignments? Is it just to back up the role playing of a character and to allow a games mechanics know how to react to you in a certain situation e.g. interacting with an NPC of certain alignment.

Perhaps I am missing the point, but in life we aren\'t branded with the fact that we are incredibly evil or a do gooder, people judge us by our actions and reputation, shouldn\'t true RPing in a persistent world be the same? Or in terms of a game needing some reference to judge us by, then couldn\'t it use some kind of karma/reputation type system (I\'m sure we have discussed this before), whereby your ingame deeds score accordingly? This way the many shades of good and evil might be better reflected and those who are truly good/evil would really have to work hard at achieving such a pure reputation. What could be more satisfying than knowing you have really earned your reputation of pure evil and are feared because of it

[Luminar]

Its nice of you to say such words kada. Seldom do the greats appreciate newbie banter:P. I like you. If ever I may serve you in any way please allow me the honour:).

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Luminar

so yes, it\'s not what you think you are
and no, it\'s not how majority feels you are.

but it is what draklar the mighty thinks you are;).

you know... that was pretty lame :rolleyes:
I mean cutting out the context:

It\'s simply how you behave, what are your intentions.

and as i said before:

Originally posted by Draklar
And for me saying alignments are pointless is like saying same about classes:
You don\'t need to name your alignment - you just do what you do
You don\'t need to name your class - you just are who you are

sure you can forget about them, but that won\'t help you with building your character. It\'s much easier to do so, if you know what should you move around.

edit: i found the missing point, Kada
alignment is what are your goals and ways of doing stuff, not how people see you - alignment and reputation are different things