Ordo Illuminatis

[Princess Aelya]

alignment in my opinion is your character...what you do when some poor xacha dropped his bag of scrolls...that sort of thing. Of course it is also determined by your actions against other people and how far you will go to get what you want or to help others. draklar i think has the right idea. reputation is what your known for.

alignment is more what your values, your goals are. an evil cunning person could very eisily build up a \"good\" reputation with the intent to use that covertly to their advantage. your good friend who has done alot for you may be the one whos been killing and robbing people on the streets at night, while he has arranged for the blame to fall on someone more known for evil acts.

[Ice_Phoenix]

Forgive my slow reaction - I just wanna sleep... zZZ... Oh, yes, sorry. Great site (I\'ve visited it - fantastic HTML-coding, I love it). But about the alignment discussion - guys let\'s just wait and see what CB will be. Then we can start to add some new ideas to it.

PS imho the best idea is the idea of karma that changes upon your good and evil deeds...and makes you play a little different (my exp in NWN says that w\\o this you WILL be good - it\'s easier and it has more profit in it). Evil must have profit in Evil and Good ... in Good...

Another thing i... zZZ...

[Luminar]

I agree with everyone. Let it rest:).

BTW karma Idea is indeed good. It\'d be perfect with a few modifications but all this will unneccessarily complicate the devs\' job.

[Draklar]

oh, wait i didn\'t notice that Kada was talking about selecting alignment in-game
ok, i agree that would be pointles and there won\'t be selecting alignments anyways, but i have lawful-evil alignment and i didn\'t select it anywhere in-game
Best idea is to not implement it ingame so it will be roleplaying purposes only. Again, it\'s like classes (selecting them won\'t be implemented too).

oh, and karma is good idea for cRPG, but i\'m not sure if it wouldn\'t be waste of coding time in mmorpg. Only famous people should be known to NPCs. Not to mention it would discourage roleplaying life.
Unless you want NPCs know every single character, but that wouldn\'t be too realistic. From my experience in p&p RPGs you aren\'t that well known and when you talk with NPCs it\'s all about charisma (and a bit of karma if you\'re on \"wanted\" list ).

[dfryer]

Beating a Dead Horse Because I Feel Like It:

The obvious answer to the question of what \"alignment\" this \"un-aligned\" guild has is that the alignment is *towards the guild*.  That is, the only constraint on the members behaviour is that it is done within guild rules and (to some degree) for guild benefit.  Nebulous concepts of \"good\", \"evil\", \"law\" and \"chaos\" function as a useful standard and starting point in D&D, but don\'t wholly capture the essence of \"alignment\" to a particular cause.  Some things that someone views as evil might be viewed by others as good, etc.  It is only appropriate that alignments to a specific cause do not fit within the limited scope of the standard alignment framework.

To change stance and stuff the guild back into a standard alignment framework, I would say that the organization itself is Truly Neutral; not that it favours members of that alignment, but that the structure itself favours neither law nor chaos, evil nor good

(... to continue to draw this out, it could be argued that membership in a guild and conformance to rules is an indication of a non-chaotic alignment, at least in some degree... )

[Draklar]

Originally posted by dfryer
Some things that someone views as evil might be viewed by others as good, etc.

yea, but only if one\'s mind is messed up enough to see good as evil.
Something that is right for one may be wrong for other but you can\'t say that about good/evil because most people know when they\'re evil or good.
Rakera: If you\'d read a bit more, you\'d know that Kada had nothing against that discussion on OI thread. And geez... stop spamming

[dfryer]

Originally posted by Draklar
yea, but only if one\'s mind is messed up enough to see good as evil.
Something that is right for one may be wrong for other but you can\'t say that about good/evil because most people know when they\'re evil or good.

I\'m not sure I understand how there is a distinction between the pair of right & wrong and the pair of good & evil.  (How can one be relative and the other absolute?  Anyway, this is probably not a suitable discussion for this forum!)

I am not sure even the mass-murdering dictators of the 20th century thought themselves evil.  There are many issues on which people are very divided, to the extent that they would call the opposing view \"evil\".  We should probably end that train of thought there, before people actually bring up issues that turn this into a total flame-fest.

 For the purposes of game-playing, I believe that evil refers to the service of self at the expense of others, while good is the service of others at the expense of self.
The service of some *other goal* might be considered a different alignment- say, aligned with nature, to the exclusion of all else.

[Xandria]

All I can say is...wait, I\'ve already answered this question before, haven\'t I?

*Xandria uses the search feature*

Doesn\'t this sound familiar?  

[Moogie]

Woo, another alignment discussion. :rolleyes:

Let\'s get back on topic, shall we? There\'s a myriad of other threads that alignments are discussed in, and one of them was actually made for that purpose in Hydlaa Plaza. Beat the dead horse there all you want.

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Mogura
one of them was actually made for that purpose in Hydlaa Plaza.

you mean the one where people started saying how alignments are pointless?
listen to Xandria... he speaks wisely :]

[Xalthar]

Originally posted by Mogura
Woo, another alignment discussion. :rolleyes:

Let\'s get back on topic, shall we? There\'s a myriad of other threads that alignments are discussed in, and one of them was actually made for that purpose in Hydlaa Plaza. Beat the dead horse there all you want.

beating dead horses is a favourite thing for most people around here... So you might as well let them...

plus it\'s a really good song by Gun\'s N\' Roses...

[Xandria]

Bah, sorry about the off topic post; I think I was in here at 1a.m. this morning.  Most likely I couldn\'t remember what thread I was in  

Well at least Draklar thinks I made a good point, it seems no one else in that old thread read it...

I agree, tis a topic that we will never settle, so best to leave it alone (perhaps another sub-forum next to PvP: \"Alignment discussion: duke it out here\" )


OT:  Hey, maybe I should post my intro in the OI forums so I can start my initiation...  

[Kada-El]

Originally posted by Xandria
OT:  Hey, maybe I should post my intro in the OI forums so I can start my initiation...  

Sounds like a great idea to me

P.S. thanks for the clean up again Moogie

[Tyriel]

This is one hell-of-a guild Ive ever seen..and Kadas seems to be doing very good job running all these places(Tavern,taverns foorum,Oi page,etc.)
All I \"little mortal\" can do Is take my hood of and show some respect
bloody good job