Author Topic: Evil  (Read 5560 times)

_Rhyxali

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Evil
« on: October 18, 2003, 07:16:05 am »
*sigh*

So tired of listening to posers/lamers acting at being evil.  Some lessons to be learned:

1. Evil does not advertise itself as such in order to gain attention.
2. Folks who are truly evil - chances are, you won\'t know it until it\'s too late.
3. Evil does not normally band together in a \"loyal\" group for achieving goals (unless it\'s lawful evil, but then, everyone\'s motives are not neccesarily the same, and \"loyal\" is entirely subjective)
4. Folks who claim to be evil for evil\'s sake just irk me.  Some hero needs to come along and remove them from our collective misery.


And, for your further edification, some excerpts from a d20 supplement aptly entitled \"Evil\":

\"Chaotic evil is lazy evil: it gets things done in the simplest possible way.  Chaotic evil can also be considered \'efficient evil.\'  Coveting your neighbor\'s house?  Conk him over the head and move in!  Don\'t like the adventurers creeping into your dungeon?  Waste \'em!  Nothing troubling you at the moment?  Take a nap!  Like every other alignment, chaotic evil types tend to hang out together because they understand one another.  These groups don\'t have a lot of rules or formal structures.  The boss is the boss because he gets things done and is strong enough to bend others to his will.  The underlings want to be in charge, and one of them will probably get ambitious enough to attack the leader eventually... assuming the leader doesn\'t crush him first.\"

\"Chaotic evil is the cycle gang who kicks down your door, steals your stuff, burns your house and deep-fries your puppy dog - then leaves.  Lawful evil is a faceless bureaucracy that seizes your house through eminent domain laws, confiscates your property with a court-ordered foreclosure, puts your puppy dog to sleep because he wasn\'t registered, and then offers to rent your old house back to you at a reasonable rate.  Lawful evil is organized.  Violence is the last resort, after it\'s tried blackmail, bribery, threats and devious backroom political maneuvering.  Chaotic evil hates to back down from an open fight.  Lawful evil hates open fights: it would much rather sneak into your bedroom, cast a sleep spell on you to make sure you\'re really out, then put a pillow over your face.  So much tidier.\"

\"In many games, the neutral evil character is rightfully described as \'Neutral Me.\'  Their number one goal is not simply to acquire power, or riches, but to grasp anything that they desire.  After they have gained it, they may as well forget about it and move on - once its usefulness is finished, or the thrill of the acquisition is gone.    Chaotic evil wants it now.  Lawful evil wants it all.  Neutral evil simply wants it, and will go to any lengths, including patience, outright bartering, or even working with a good party to get it.  The neutral evil villains do occasionally keep their word and stick to contracts - when it is in their best interest.\"

[excerpts Copyright 2001 Alderac Entertainment Group, Inc.]

Some other thoughts:
If you\'re going to RP \"evil\", take a good look into the mindset.  Go into a public place and step out of your normal societal role, and closely observe the \"sheep\" around you.  Notice how they\'re so wrapped up in their own little worlds: on their cellphones, talking with a friend, or wondering what to buy.  It takes little effort to reach out and take/disrupt a life.  More effort is required to achieve mass destruction (blowing up a mall, for instance), with the greater reward/satisfaction as a result.  The villains make the adventure.  Exploring a rich, immersive environment with no \"true bad guys\" (AI or player) will doom any game.  I go through my tedious life day by day, with no desire to repeat that in a virtual environment.  If you\'re going to portray \"evil\", at least do it right.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2003, 08:44:06 am by _Rhyxali »

Xandria

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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2003, 09:01:50 am »
Does this post win the award for \"longeset 1st post ever?\"  ;)

Anyhow, interesting topic, Rhyxali.  I\'ve also continuously wondered how there are going to be all these evil/mercenary/bad-peopld guilds when there\'s no pvp in the game.  It\'s possible, it just doesn\'t seem to fit.

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ln -sf /usr/share/zoneinfo/Antarctica/Davis /etc/localtime

_Rhyxali

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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2003, 09:56:02 am »
The only way these \"guilds\" would fit in is if they could actually get organized, build their power base, infiltrate the reigning governments, and sway important decisions while spreading corruption and distrust behind the scenes.  The only use for \"out-there\" evil is to distract the others from seeing/recognizing true evil.  They are the cannon fodder that covers up true motives.

So many times, it seems the \"evil\" portrayed here resembles the following:

\"Ooh, I\'m so Evil!  You simply must fear me!\"
<\'evil\' player sashays over to the nearest hapless char>
 \"Boo!  Boo, I say!  Nyaah!\"

In order for people to start thinking \"evil\", they need to step into the role.  If you\'re evil, would you broadcast your intentions to the heroes who just might foil your well-made plans?  Or brag about how superior you are while the heroes plan to remove you from the face of the land?  Evil is cunning.  Evil is crafty.  Evil has backup plans for its backup plans.  If people start to realize the depths of what true evil can achieve, then we can all worry.  Evil, as it stands here and now, in this place, is laughable.

Psycon

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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2003, 10:06:13 am »
I sure hope evil won\'t be lame because I love a good fight. Too bad all the fighting has been made on the forums and not ingame. Just accept that you won\'t find pure evil and pure good. It\'s just in the human nature.

Good and evil are just excuses 4 ppl to jump at each other\'s throat and have a lot of fun killing each other. If there wasn\'t evil we wouldn\'t have anybody to fight with, and this is so dull. Ppl play this game because they wanna fight a human oponent.
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Draklar

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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2003, 10:58:17 am »
Quote
Originally posted by _Rhyxali
  If you\'re evil, would you broadcast your intentions to the heroes who just might foil your well-made plans?  Or brag about how superior you are while the heroes plan to remove you from the face of the land?

well said, my friend :]

Quote
Originally posted by Psycon
Just accept that you won\'t find pure evil and pure good. It\'s just in the human nature.

well first of all human isn\'t only race in Yliakum :P
second tis is roleplay and thou might find any type of character in here,
great roleplayer may play pure evil or good.

Quote
Originally posted by Psycon
Good and evil are just excuses 4 ppl to jump at each other\'s throat and have a lot of fun killing each other.

no, good and evil are just words that show thy general goals. If one person is doing something against your goals, you try to fight it (not always by jumping at that person\'s throat).
btw: if you didn\'t know that, good is opposite to evil, so is against any kind of violence. Ones that actually hunt evil, are lawful people.

Quote
Originally posted by Psycon
Ppl play this game because they wanna fight a human oponent.

What makes you say that?
I usually play RPGs because of \'RP\' factor...
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_Rhyxali

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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2003, 01:10:46 pm »
Oh, please.  If you want to fight against human opponents, go play Quake3 or Tribes2, or get out your Xbox and play Halo.  Lots of PK there - in fact, that\'s the point of those games.  You could also go play Shadowbane, a griefer\'s paradise.  Lots of leet lewt to harvest from your kills.  Maybe the devs should make PS into a big, dungeon-like arena for \"ppl\" to gank each other in.  Wouldn\'t that be loads of fun?

Seriously though, RPGs assume that the players will play the role of their character: actually pretend to be someone else for a while, complete with an alternate personality.  They \"live\" their virtual life, experience high adventure, and also experience creepy depths with dangerous monsters hidden just around the corner.  Throw in some treasure to gain, along with a modicum of fame, and most RPG-ers will be very happy.  Let them adventure with friends, find new areas, and \"save the day\" through quests.  Why must everything turn into \"I love PK, I love to killz ppl?\"  If you play online games solely for the \"fun\" of killing others, there\'s something very wrong with you.

Xordan

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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2003, 02:09:39 pm »
In a no pvp world, u\'ll find that after a while most people will get bored, and leave. Only the RP only people will be left, turning the game into summin along the lines of a 3d neopets without fighting. :D

Drachion

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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2003, 02:27:35 pm »
ooc & ot: i agree with xordan but to be honest if there is no pvp there is no use for an evil group either you will have sumthing like the smurfs only then you use a currency.
so to have both evil and good you need pvp but then well balanced out.
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Xalthar

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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2003, 02:41:13 pm »
I don\'t know if it is stupid to advertise yourself as evil... It might have some degree of ignorance in it, since you don\'t decide for yourself what others see as evil...

And yes, without pvp, it kind of ruins some of the prospects I had in mind for my char... But I am hoping some pvp will be able, and some pking..

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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2003, 02:45:28 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Xordan
In a no pvp world, u\'ll find that after a while most people will get bored, and leave. Only the RP only people will be left, turning the game into summin along the lines of a 3d neopets without fighting. :D

heh... another clever post by Xordan :P
how about pencil & paper RPGs?
there isn\'t much of pvp, is there? :P
still, people are playing them, and they can even fight there :P ;)

about only roleplayers staying: that\'s the best thing that could happen :D
seriously: main point of RPGs is roleplaying, if you don\'t like that and want only pvp go play quake or something :P
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_Rhyxali

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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2003, 04:40:55 pm »
*sigh*  (again)

This is not a PvP nor a PK thread, but an analysis of evil.  Don\'t you people DARE for one moment equate the base premise of evil to killing.  Evil people doing some killing is simply one (commonly) stereotypical aspect.  Why limit yourselves to one thing?  Evil has so many shades and flavors, it\'s a shame to focus on only one.  People claiming to celebrate evil by murdering the masses get all the attention.  True evil sits in his corner office, smiling at the way his \"associates\" contributed to the dementia the mass murderer suffers as he continues his \"cleansing\" of the local populace.  Killers are only tools, to be used when furthering goals.  There is obviously no shortage of people willing to PK.  But will they know they\'re being manipulated?  Probably not.  They\'re too busy being \"evil.\"

Switching gears a bit, Evil can be a matter of perspective.  Knights in the European middle ages slaughtered tens of thousands in the name of God.  They saw the things they did as Holy and pure.  They considered themselves to be good and righteous.  No evil there, right?  Evil is most insidious and undetectable when disguised as Good.  When you\'re walking at the mall, can you discern who\'s evil, and who\'s not?  Maybe some of these Good guild leaders have darker purposes in mind....

Also, I never said whether or not I endorse PvP or PK.  That issue has been beaten to death and beyond; just drop it.

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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2003, 06:37:51 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Xalthar
And yes, without pvp, it kind of ruins some of the prospects I had in mind for my char... But I am hoping some pvp will be able, and some pking..


Damn Xalthar, you don\'t know this?  Well, I\'m not going to answer it, because you should know...

I\'m not going to argue about what evil is, because that\'s useless, evil is what each individual person makes it out to be.  Others who think their evil wouldn\'t listen and be swayed anyways.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2003, 06:38:35 pm by Kiern »

Xalthar

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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2003, 06:41:29 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Kiern
Quote
Originally posted by Xalthar
And yes, without pvp, it kind of ruins some of the prospects I had in mind for my char... But I am hoping some pvp will be able, and some pking..


Damn Xalthar, you don\'t know this?  Well, I\'m not going to answer it, because you should know...


What is it I don\'t know? I had many things in mind for my char when I first joined this community, more than 6 months ago... I was dissapointed about stuff back then, that I still am now...

Kiern

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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2003, 06:44:08 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Xalthar
What is it I don\'t know?


Quote
Originally posted by Xalthar
But I am hoping some pvp will be able, and some pking..

Isgrimnur

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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2003, 07:17:20 pm »
Hmm, Interesting discussion.

Anyway even without PvP the more intelligent of Players (not that Im calling anybody stupid) will recognise that there are other more underhanded ways to gain what they want than killing other people.

Also all this talk of good and evil is all relative, two peoples views of what is good could oppose the other meaning that in the eyes of one they are good (/evil) and there opponent is evil (/good) whereas the other person could think exactly the same.

So what is Good and Evil???????

Ans: I dont know as far as I\'m concerned its all in the eye of the beholder
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