Staves and similar weapons

[Xandria]

Oh gosh, one of the things I really want to see implemented in PS is a good staff system.  Staves should be able to be magical devices (see Grono\'s post on magic) as well as effecient melee weapons.

A character with high dexterity, light or no body armor, and a knowledge of martial arts should be able to wield a staff very efficiently.  The staff may appear, to the untrained eye, to be nothing more than a walking stick, capable of doing little damage.  While in truth, simply attacking with a staff as one might do with a sword would be futile, as any good set of armor would absorb the hit.  However, one who is trained with a staff can block most attacks from any melee weapon, and knows where to strike an enemy to knock them off balance, or even disarm their opponent.

This, I would like to see implemented in PS, along with the following (a little something I made up awhile back):



     

[Zakynthos]

All these ideas are great, and I agree with a good staff system.  However:

The heavy duty weapons should be MUCH better at dealing out physical damage, no matter how \'incredible quarterstaves are in melee movies,\'  this isn\'t even a movie.  It\'s a game where there are different races with no doubt super human strength swinging metallic weaponry that weighs probably hundreds of pounds. =P

You guys seem to want a staff that focuses and enhances magic, while at the same time being a deadly melee weapon.

What about a greatsword?  Big slow and only really hurts when it connects?  There has to be balance, if you want to get so realistic, then all the archers will win, in real life no one is going to deflect a speeding arrow with their quarterstaff, and they can\'t wield a shield.  Even if they got lucky somehow, a competant archer can fire off arrows rather fast no?

Magical enhancer or melee weapon, not both.  Unless you give all other weapons equally strong capabilities.

[Xandria]

I agree with you on the point that there must be balance.  I think that if a way can be found to balance the various assortment of weapons and defences in the game, we won\'t have to worry about everyone being archers, or everyone being greatsword-wielders.

Plus, I think that the system should be based on skills as much (if not more) as it is on items.  While a high quality staff could be both a magical enhancement and an effective weapon, a character with a high level of intelligence, but not very much dexterity, will gain a magical benefit but will not be able to use the staff as an effective melee weapon, and vice versa.

Shields are also another example of dual-purpose equipment.  They can be invaluable for blocking both melee AND ranged attacks, plus, with the proper training can also be used as an effective weapon in battle (smiting an enemy with your shield, for example).  But does that make shield so powerful that we should take them out of the game?  I don\'t think so; as long as it can be balanced with skills.  In order for a character to be able to wield a shield with such efficiency would require a lot of training and practice, and I believe the same could go for staves as well.

[Wedge]

Staves are great for beating up other people... but monsters have all sorts of different anatomies, so being able to unbalance and parry and all that fancy stuff against them loses effectiveness.  Not to say you can\'t deal out some damage with one, but it has to be a weapon-type that isn\'t really helping your magic.  A magic aiding one is all frail and umm... stick like.

[Goji]

The thing with Staves though, is that a person properly trained with a stave can hit so rapidly you cant follow it with your eye, as you use momentum and when striking with a stave, you have a reflexive rebounding motion that a person can capitalize on.  Not to say that the stave will do heavy damage, but rather damage should be catagorized.  A person in heavy plate mail would laugh at a staff user.... he doesnt have a hope.  All bludgeoning type damage would be ineffectual against that type of armour.  But a person in ring/scale mail would be at the stave users mercy, as thier armour only protects from cutting and doesnt protect from the force of the blow.

Mind you, a bludgeoning type weapon should have damage modifiers  that attack the opponents agility, co-ordination, and stamina.  I mean... getting hit over and over and over again (even though it may not really hurt) will wear you down.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents :p

[Zakynthos]

That\'s a bit rhetoric Goji, an assassin properly trained with daggers or katars could hit so rapidly you can\'t follow it with your eyes.

Also, the staff should not have *extra* modifiers to make the person wore down or tired.  Every weapon will wear someone down just as fast, or faster than a staff.  Combat in general would have modifiers for wearing the combatants down.

The way the PS system looks now.  There would be a martial arts proficiency including staff use, and staff use as a magical weapon.  Therefore, you would have to sacrifice skill points in both areas, (and possibly lack in both areas later on), if you want it as magic power and melee power.

[Xandria]

Exactly my point, Zakynthos.  If you want to use the magical properties and melee properties of a staff, you must become proficient in both areas, but that means that you won\'t be a powerful magic user and melee combatant, you will be less skilled at both.

See, it\'s balance at work

[Sarios]

He is good, He is really good, really really good!!!

[Goji]

Yes, katars and daggers can be wielded with blurring speed, but by the nature of the staff, it can hit in a wide variety of areas without the user moving significantly.  A dagger/katar to hit a persons feet (without throwing) would require the person to actually bend down.  This whole action requires the person to sacrifice speed to hit that persons foot.  The staff wouldnt.  But... Im not saying that katars and daggers dont have their values.  Just the fact that staves are generally very underestimated as they are only blunt sticks  

Anyhow, as it looks now, would a person trained a little in both stave magic and stave combat be able to use the magic simultaniously with combat?  Ie. activiating a spell while clunking someone over the head?  That would make being a jack-of-all trades to be somewhat worthwhile.  Otherwise, you prolly wont see people crossing skills like that, as its too detrimental to do a little of both.

[Zakynthos]

I sort of like that idea.  Coupled with being not an incredible magic user or an insane melee fighter, thanks to \'Balance at Work.\'

You could use a light magical incantation to imbue fire damage onto your staff.  When you enter a melee battle, each hit you connect could add a little \'burn\' to your victim, ie minute fire damage.

So if you\'re normally doing 10 damage per swing with your staff, the enchanted staff does 10 damage + 1-3 fire damage, it would add up and become effective.

[Kixie]

hehe a burning attack... ~drools...~ hehe i like the idea of that... :]

[Rageburst]

Here are some ideas....

With the staff you can have the ability to knock people out, but not kill them (at low health, they become unconscious for a duration). This is good for avoiding the penalties of killing npcs (like bounties or whatnot).

Or maybe you can make the staff have blocking bonuses so it has a balance between offensive and defensive capabilities..

[Goji]

I dont agree with the staff only being able to knock out.  What happens when you face monsters?  Do you only knock out them?  I could see an option to try to knock out a person/thing, yet there is a random chance to kill the person/thing.  But if your hunting, you can uncheck the option, so that you kill everytime, not just knock out.  I\'d hate to knock out 50 monsters only to have them wake up as soon as I get the last one down!


As far as stave defensive capabilities, every weapon has that option.  A sword can allways block a slash much as a stave could.  There is no truely defensive nature to a weapon.  Its purpose is to hurt.  The fact that you can use it to stop an attack from harming you does not mean its defensive.

[Jessyn]

well, that last part is true, but as a weapon, the staff is more verstile than most, both offensively, and defensively. with a staff, i can most hits more easily than with a sword(yes, i have tested this in RL).

and yes, if you want to smash someones skull in with a staff, you can do it.  the point is that if you just want to knock em out, you CAN.(try doing that with a sword sometime...)

Jessyn

[Sarios]

I myself have to agree with Jessyn on this one! This is because the feel of holding and handling a staff is way more comfortable than with some other weapons and when you attack with one you get a natural rythme going that speeds up your attack and gives near perfect control! Also like someone said earlier on in the post (sorry I forgot) the staff (even if it doesn\'t damage that much) it would still be equal to damage dealt with a sword because its speed would make it seem like the damage is greater than it really is! In conclusion staves are equal to other weapons damage wise!