Quests, npcs and characters et al.

[Gzian]

I have spoken with some npcs. with others, it is not always easy to tell who is a player and who is an npc. This will become especially a problem when large numbers of players come online. Also the unless you ask the right question, gibberish results. Accordingly, I would suggest some additions, which I have seen in some online games.

1. Have a mark such as an exclaimation point or ? used for npcs that have quests. If the quest is doable, the mark will be in green. If the quest requires a high level,  the mark will be red.

2. Trainers should also have some identifying mark that they are a trainer and preferably what subject they train. For example, a weapon/armor trainer might have a shield or sword above his head.

3. This may have been discussed,but conversation with NPCs isn\'t the easiest around. I would change this to one of two approaches: 1. When we ask the npc about himself, they should note in brackets ( such as occurs in everquest) what we should be asking for and suggest the exact wording of our request. 2. The approach that I like better is to have a set choice of conversational lines that we can simply click on to get what we need. One thing is for sure, there needs to be a better way to communicate with the npcs and get what they have available in a more efficient manner.

4. I think that newspapers should be provided which give hints as to new things, quests, missions etc that players should attempt.

5. Dungeons: I have rarely (although I won\'t say never) met a player that liked real convoluted complex dungeons. Getting lost isn\'t fun for most people but the real hardcore. I would suggest that when you design dungeons, they should, for the most part, be fairly straight forward, which means that they are easy to navigate and easy to find the exit. This is not to say that I would eliminate all the sophisticated dungeons. I would have a few for those hard core types that want a challenge and like to explore till they drop in finding exits etc. However, I wouldn\'t have a lot of these, and I would make them the exception and not the rule.

[Axsyrus]

the game is a tech-demo, the npc\'s are just here for some basic testing, they will be alot more advanced in the next version.
i don\'t really like the ideas you came up with as most of them make the game a lot less fun. half of the fun of solving a quest is actually finding it, if a npc has a sign above his head \"QUEST HERE\" you would take away all of that.
about the dungeons, as there will be falling damage in the next version of PS, i don\'t think you should be able to jump in the well so easily. so if you jump in there, don\'t whine about not finding the way out, you did it yourself.

[elscouta]

Originally posted by Gzian
I have spoken with some npcs. with others, it is not always easy to tell who is a player and who is an npc. This will become especially a problem when large numbers of players come online. Also the unless you ask the right question, gibberish results. Accordingly, I would suggest some additions, which I have seen in some online games.

I definitively agree, it\'s always boring to try to find neutral sentence to detect if it is a NPC or a player

1. Have a mark such as an exclaimation point or ? used for npcs that have quests. If the quest is doable, the mark will be in green. If the quest requires a high level,  the mark will be red.

hmm... i don\'t like this. Travellling through the world to find quests is part of difficulty (and fun)

2. Trainers should also have some identifying mark that they are a trainer and preferably what subject they train. For example, a weapon/armor trainer might have a shield or sword above his head.

i don\'t think trainers will exist. (according to discussion in the Wish List forum)

5. Dungeons: I have rarely (although I won\'t say never) met a player that liked real convoluted complex dungeons. Getting lost isn\'t fun for most people but the real hardcore. I would suggest that when you design dungeons, they should, for the most part, be fairly straight forward, which means that they are easy to navigate and easy to find the exit. This is not to say that I would eliminate all the sophisticated dungeons. I would have a few for those hard core types that want a challenge and like to explore till they drop in finding exits etc. However, I wouldn\'t have a lot of these, and I would make them the exception and not the rule.

but i like sophisticated dungeons. however i agree that they should be not so numerous.

[Gzian]

Axsyrus notes,\"i don\'t really like the ideas you came up with as most of them make the game a lot less fun. half of the fun of solving a quest is actually finding it,\"


Axsyrus, sorry,but I DON\'T agree. First, I should note that I am not an idiot. I was a game reviewer for UO shards and was a freelance game reviewer for various game sites and magazines.

Secondly, It isn\'t fun to me to try to figure out who the players are and who the npcs are. I am sorry,but that isn\'t fun. Clicking on everyone and everything isn\'t fun!

My main gripe with most MMORPG games is that they have too much time sinks and not enough time in the fun parts of the game.

 Convoluted dungeons that require hours if not weeks to get out of isn\'t fun. Spending many minutes of frustration figuring out what dialogue to use on an NPC isn\'t fun. Finally, spending lots of time even figuring out who the NPCs are vs. the players because they look alike isn\'t fun.

 If all this is your idea of fun, we agree to disagree. However, since I have reviewed games (and sometimes still do), I like to think that I have a handle on what people like and don\'t like, and would humbly suggest that you take my suggestions a bit more seriously!

[elscouta]

Originally posted by Gzian
 Convoluted dungeons that require hours if not weeks to get out of isn\'t fun.

Some people find that\'s not fun. I agree that it must exist easy to find/solve dungeons and quests, but it\'s not because there is players who dislike difficulty that everyhting should be simple. You can make easy to find quests (through newspaper for example) but some quests should be available only for players that take the time to enjoy the game. And YES spending time on a game, travelling through the world, trying to find hidden places , quests or NPCs is enjoying a game

Spending many minutes of frustration figuring out what dialogue to use on an NPC isn\'t fun. Finally, spending lots of time even figuring out who the NPCs are vs. the players because they look alike isn\'t fun.

I think we can agree on this.

[Gzian]

It occured to me that I noted what isn\'t fun. Maybe I should note what is:

1. I loved the algebraic and logic puzzles and other puzzles( that didn\'t require Einstein to solve) found in Might and Magic 1-5. They were very nice and gave decent rewards. I am good at these and if you want to add them, I can help

2. I loved the single player game that had combination locks on chests. There was a skill called \"lockpicking \" or something where the higher the skill the easier to get the combination.

3. I loved the one thing that made Everquest stand out, lots of nice unique items constantly being added to the game.

4. I loved being able to tailer your character to make a battle mage or whatever and didn\'t have to rely on the designers choices of skills.

5. I love secret room with hidden treasures found in trees and behind walls. This certainly encouraged exploration.

6. I loved being able to kill creatures or mobs without needing a lot of other players. Certainly, I hated dieing but will acknowledge that it needs to be a possibility in the game, just not a probability as found in some online games. Although I would like the ability to group and get added benefits from grouping

7. I hate PvP!

8. I love the \"who all\" commands that tell me who is online so I can send a message.

9. I love macros where I can talk to people or repeat message without a lot of typing.

10. I love a high limit on skills and/or levels so I won\'t reach a plateau on growth but hate to have each level take too long a time for each level.

11. I love clear intuitive interfaces.

12. I love a clear manual explaining what should and should not be done, and thus keep the studid questions (such as mine) from being asked.

13. I love a tutorial for new players so that we can easily access the game without a lot of problems. AC2 did this very well.


There is probably more,but you get the point

8. I love t

[elscouta]

Originally posted by Gzian
It occured to me that I noted what isn\'t fun. Maybe I should note what is:

1. I loved the algebraic and logic puzzles and other puzzles( that didn\'t require Einstein to solve) found in Might and Magic 1-5. They were very nice and gave decent rewards. I am good at these and if you want to add them, I can help

That\'s always nice puzzles

2. I loved the single player game that had combination locks on chests. There was a skill called \"lockpicking \" or something where the higher the skill the easier to get the combination.

I hope you don\'t mean a game that can only be broken by brute force (trying all combinations, combinations being less numerous if high skill). I don\'t like these ones

5. I love secret room with hidden treasures found in trees and behind walls. This certainly encouraged exploration.

agreed.

7. I hate PvP!

What do you call PvP? Is it PK (not allowed) or duelling and guild wars (they are probably going to be allowed)

11. I love clear intuitive interfaces.

Who don\'t like them?

12. I love a clear manual explaining what should and should not be done, and thus keep the studid questions (such as mine) from being asked.

Manuals are generally not so useful. Nobody reads them (and especially those who ask questions). However, there is howtos in the Newbie forum

13. I love a tutorial for new players so that we can easily access the game without a lot of problems. AC2 did this very well.

This is definitively a must. In the FF* games, you can easily throw yourself in the game without any knowledge, knowing that tutorials will give you all the knowledge you need

[lostprophet]

I think there should be a way of identifying npc\'s, like different coloured names or something, but not quests. You should have to talk to an npc before you find out if they have something to offer.

[Nihil]

well, right now you are easily able to identify npc: the have two part names, and players can only create one part names ;-)

though id like to be able to use space in names, so we could create more varied and rpg like names

finally, i dont like the \"npc makes this and that\" markers, too =?
of course talking to npc have to be improved, but in an intuitive way, not like \"i tell you to say this\"

[deacla]

NPC \"Zak\" has a one part name

[Nihil]

but he looks completely different =?
anyway, i know that the names arent a good to identify npc like they are now, just wanted to mention that you are able to differ npc from players right now, in the current version  :-)

[Axsyrus]

i don\'t think trainers will exist. (according to discussion in the Wish List forum)

I can already request 3 sorts of training in the game. (they just aren\'t implemented yet)

It isn\'t fun to me to try to figure out who the players are and who the npcs are. I am sorry,but that isn\'t fun. Clicking on everyone and everything isn\'t fun!

almost all NPC\'s have a \' or a space in there name, a normal player is not even able to do this, you also won\'t find any NPC\'s that walk yet, so that makes them easily recognisable.

Convoluted dungeons that require hours if not weeks to get out of isn\'t fun.

wow, did it actually took you hours to get out of that dungeon, sorry didn\'t know you were that stupid.. there is something called a chat window, you can always ask

Spending many minutes of frustration figuring out what dialogue to use on an NPC isn\'t fun.

the NPC\'s are just here for some simple testing! i thought i already said this.. the dialogue will be greatly improved in the next versions. (everything you can say right now is in the player guide, you could have read that too.)

Axsyrus, sorry,but I DON\'T agree. First, I should note that I am not an idiot. I was a game reviewer for UO shards and was a freelance game reviewer for various game sites and magazines.

Gzian, sorry, but I DON\'T care.

[lostprophet]

Gzian, please remove your head  from your arse before you are permanently blinded by the sun you believe shines out of it.

[Moogie]

Let\'s refrain from the personal insults please. Everyone else seems to be discussing this maturely so it isn\'t that hard.

[Gzian]

Axsyrus notes,\"
wow, did it actually took you hours to get out of that dungeon, sorry didn\'t know you were that stupid.. there is something called a chat window, you can always ask \"


Normally, I don\'t respond to anyone who personally attacks me,but for the record, I did use the chat and did shout a request for help and did use \"say\" and got NO response!