Dynamic Quests

[Fish]

I totally apologized for responding to this thread.

I didn?t realize you are in fantasy land.

Being in fantasy land in a game is good.

Being in fantasy land in Computerworld is bad.

Once again, sincerely, I apologize.

[Axsyrus]

fish: the 3d engine has absolutely nothing to do with quests, it will be the same quest even if it is in a text based game.

*axsyrus wonders why nobody responds to his post*

[Davis]

Originally posted by Fish
Hay vengeance just jump right and correct me if you want to(not that you wouldn?t)

Quests aren?t coated. They are a text file with an engine, which is coated, works on to make a quest.  It?s kind of similar to how the graphics engine works.  The graphics engine does not have any data in it.  The data is an XML file and graphics files for texture.  Their combined using the graphics engine is used to render a scene.  A quest engine uses quest data to produce a quest.  Writing an actual quest in code would be ridiculously complex.

Adding a few if statements and case statements to the code doesn?t seem very difficult.  However building a quest where the writer has to produce answers for every conceivable combination and outcome in a quest seems like a very difficult job.  It would seem to me if you had a practical limit to the number of outcomes like say four it might be doable.

If you?re thinking that the computer comes up with text in any way other than somebody writing the story I would like to hear it, better yet I would like to know how you can do that without an outrageous amount of computing power.

What\'s the text for? There can be variables that change, like the condition of a building... you need to htink out of the box. Like I said, a quest doesn\'t always have to be an assignment by an NPC. It could just be a possible action; the concept of my idea.
Basically, the idea is to have more player interaction and control; I was trying to figure out a way to do that, and I think I have the rudiments of a solution. Fish, if you think that players having more influence on a quest is \"being in fantasyland\", ok, that\'s you, but that\'s also pretty stupid. Not everything in a quest has to be the server making up text. Players can have influence too. If Auran asks you to stalk Grono for a while, then, by my definition, that is also a quest, even if NPC\'s and the server had nothing to do with it.

I think that the server should create situations where player interaction with the enviroment is possible; is that really so hard to believe? Why does the server have to respond to everything, make up solutions to everything? Why can\'t the players have some control?

I forgive you for not putting much thought into your post, but I take my idea seriously, so next time, think it over

[Davis]

OK, now I see the source of the confusion:
My original post makes little sense.
SO here is me re-explaining it:
A quest doesn\'t have to be something NPC\'s control. I think there should be dynamic situations that involve the players more than the NPCs. Like I said before, Auran asking you to stalk Grono is a quest. I think the server should create situations that players might have interest in changing, like the zombie situation in Threed. If someone goes and kills all the zombies in various ways, then the zombies are dead. Do we really need NPC\'s spoon-feeding you the game?

[Axsyrus]

ok.. still no responds to my posts, Davis did you even read it?

anyways, like i said there are certain properties(variables) that makes stuff happen, just read my post, it explains everything!!!

[Davis]

With the php thing? Yeah, I read that, it\'s a slightly different concept.

[Draklar]

Davis, I\'m talking about these quests that would be started by NPCs, not all will be started by PCs, right?
And ones started by players are all about roleplaying, this forum has nothing to do with it. Unless you want PS to generate something that won\'t allow players cheat each other...

[zedd_owd]

Originally posted by Axsyrus
this would be cool, and not very hard to code, it\'s like this:

you have certain properties, and the NPC will only tell you about the quest when you\'ve reached one of them.

for example, there\'s a quest that needs to be solved by stealing something, this quest will only be given to characters with, let\'s say skill level 20 climbing and level 30 picklocking, the code would be something like this:(this is php and probably wrong but it\'s just an example ):

if($skill_climbing == \"20\"){
   if($skill_lockpicking == \"30\"){
      start_quest_01();
   } else {
       print \"You\'re not skilled enough in lockpicking, please come back later.\";
   }
}else {
   print \"You\'re not skilled enough in climbing, please come back later.\";
 yup what i meant was that everytime someone logs on the game the game will generate specific missions and quests similar to this example

yup what i meant was that everytime someone logs on the game the game will generate specific missions and quests similar to this example. while mission generated would be mostly side quests  meaning they will not affect the main storyline of the game.
to me this is what dynamic quests are all about !!  
its something not having to be repeated over and again.
 

[Fish]

Axsyrus I guess the concept of an analogy is lost.  The similarity is in both engines and data are separate.  Combining the data in the engine is a serious mistake.  If you don?t think the 3D graphics engine works on the XML text file go to the Crystal space web site and get reading.  In fact I did respond your post, nobody?s going to C code a quest.

Davis I think what you?re proposing is writing a quest system that is much like a interpreted programming language.  One that can react too external properties.  Current quest engines are tightly packed with the NPC chat systems and somebody has to actually write the text the NPC says.  Changing this to a programming language will make the data structure very complicated.  It will still have to be typed in by a person and it will still be a text file for data.

If you think the computer is going to be a cyber game master that is able to make dynamic quests on-the-fly you can forget about it.  It isn?t going to happen.  That kind of artificial intelligence is way beyond the scope of building a videogame.  You still got to have a person designed the quest.

However Davis there is hope.  Just because there is a semi interpreted programming language designed into a quest engine doesn?t mean you actually have to use it.  The author of the quest can choose to make it as dynamic or non-dynamic as they like.  Furthermore tools can be developed, like word processor macros to insert dynamic parts to help the usually non-technical author to add dynamic elements.

[Davis]

Originally posted by Draklar
Davis, I\'m talking about these quests that would be started by NPCs, not all will be started by PCs, right?
And ones started by players are all about roleplaying, this forum has nothing to do with it. Unless you want PS to generate something that won\'t allow players cheat each other...

Why are player-started ones all roleplay?
Why can\'t I say \"get me this and I\'ll pay you, it\'s not like you could use it anyway\"? And if he doesn\'t give it to me, too bad for him.
Fish: You still have no idea what I\'m talking about.

Am I this bad at explaining things?  ?(

[Skizzik]

Originally posted by Fish
That kind of artificial intelligence is way beyond the scope of building a videogame.  You still got to have a person designed the quest.

The game will have GMs If a GM uses his/her creativity, (s)he could make a great quest. These quests together with the \'standard\' quests is all a quester needs IMO.

[Fish]

Skizzik we agree.  It takes a creative person or GM to write the quest.  And unless the GM wants to stay up at all hours of the day and night managing the quest they have to do a complete job.  Including writing in all possible outcomes.  Considering this game will never actually be finished some people might find it interesting to actually build a very complex quest.  So at least having the capability to do rudimentary logic statements in a quest and check up on game parameters may be a good idea in the quest system.

I suppose the bottom line is until I read a short story written by a computer that is anything other than garbage I am not convinced a computer can generate anything coherent in a quest.  And by having multiple outcomes or in intertwine plot equals complexity.  Somebody?s got to write it, having somebody stay online the whole time maintaining it seems like quite a bother.

[Tylyu]

If you think the computer is going to be a cyber game master that is able to make dynamic quests on-the-fly you can forget about it. It isn?t going to happen. That kind of artificial intelligence is way beyond the scope of building a videogame. You still got to have a person designed the quest.

You\'re right, but it could be genereating pseudo on-the-fly quests by using templates, such as :

SAY TO ( >= <#>)
FIND (Condition) IN
GET TO
KILL <#> (Condition)

Where <> objects are replaced by randomly chosen ones of the specified type according to Condition.

If Coders implements the first one I suggested, Server might generate Strengh for and 25 for <#>, so, the quests becomes : SAY TO (Strengh >= 25)

Then, the Server selects a random player from the ones with Strengh >= 25 (say Player), generates a password (say Password), and the quest \"SAY \'Password\' to \'Player\'\" has been generated.

Could also generate a random number of conditions for the Player list ...

Why can\'t I say \"get me this and I\'ll pay you, it\'s not like you could use it anyway\"? And if he doesn\'t give it to me, too bad for him.

Well, I don\'t see why you couldn\'t ... In the actual state of the game, you can already ask any player to do something, and if he\'s done it, you just give him credits. I don\'t see how the server should interfeere with that.

Oh ! You mean having somewhat interface with \"X will give 50 rubies against Y information or Z object\" written on it when someone\'s asking for ?

Well, this could actualy let the player ask multiple players to do that quest and revoke the contract when anybody\'s got the job done. So if anyone gets the job done before you, you get some kinda \"You\'re too late\" message ...