Your vision of an ideal ranged weapons system.

[Soyokaze]

I\'ve seen many FPRPGS where ranged weapons are handled very badly, and others where they work very well. As combat is in it\'s early stages of developement this should be a seriose topic of discussion at this point. Here we will share our views on how ranged combat should work. Cases of good ranged weapons we\'ve seen in games, and cases of badly done ranged weapons By ranged weapons I refer to all kinds of Bows, Crossbows, throwing weapons, and the like.


In many games the bow is all but useless. I want to see that someone with a bow can take down someone with a sword if skill or statistics lean in his favor. I\'d like to see the ability to arc your fire and drop arrows on far foes. Being able to do so makes for long ranged combat on a medievil battlefield scope. Melee fighters in front and groups of archers launching arrows into the crowd of enemy soldiers. Bows should be more effective at this long range when grouped with other bowman as to deliver a hail of arrows. They should be better against unarmored and light armor but weak against heavy armor and heavy sheilds. In this way a group of warriors can charge the archers and reach them only losing a few men if the archers are unsuported. The damage shouldn\'t be limited so that they are insufficient against strong opponents, but based on the user\'s strength and dexterity (or equivilent stats) increase in effect. Varied kinds of arrows can also change the effect. Elementaly enchanted arrows, cheaply made arrows, fine iron headed arrows, masterwork complex arrows, poisen tipped arrows, etc. This could even enhance any weapons working trade skill by mixing and matching arrow-heads, shafts, and fletchings to create custom arrows. Bolts for crossbows should be treated much the same but with standard statistics, only the player\'s hit/miss should be effected by stats. It should be the best of the three for close range. The low level crossbow user should be able to deal more damage than the low level long-bow user, but at higher levels the long-bow has more potential. This excludes enchanted items of course. Thrown weapons should be the very quite with low range and capable of critical hits. Stealthy weapons for use by thieves, bounty hunters, and the like. A player should be able to specialise in the use of the three supported with magics suited to this skill and remain leathal even if compromising close range. Of course at close range the sword must almost always win, with exeption to the crossbow in some cases.

Thoughts?

[Kixie]

i agree on some levels. I think an exposed jugular shot should take down any person one hit. I mean no one survives a shot to the jugular. Bows should be so hard to use that even though some shots are one shot one kill using bows would be discouraged. First person view should be obtainable when using a bow and aiming it should actually be aiming it. Not jut shooting and if it hits them some sort of random dice decides what damage it does... but since the game wont really develope around combat i guess all of my ideas are irrelevent....

[Soyokaze]

It\'s an MMORPG, combat is an unavoidable issue. I to would like to see a lot of skill and good equiptment required, but possible 1 shot kills. I\'m immagining large guild VS guild battles on open plains in my head here, but hey we have 100,000 players right? I just realy don\'t want to be forced to use a broadsword AGAIN.

[roguewolftamer]

ok this is an MMORPG, and NO ONE SHOT KILLS, if it was a FPS then maybe, but this is an mmorpg, so instead how about if it hits ya in a spot with less armor then the other spots it does more damage, like say ive got a helm with 12 AR and a cuirass with 19, hitting my head would do more dmg cause of less armor, but if they were both 19 AR then the head should still do alittle bit more dmg, but not much

[elscouta]

Yes, luck must not be a critical part of a rpg combat. And aiming is irrelevant since some people will be disavantaged by lag.

[Skizzik]

That makes things like arc fire or whatever irrelevant too.
\"In many games the bow is all but useless.\"
That means that they\'re NOT useless, are you aware of that?
Bow shouldnt be useless, but it also shouldnt be overpowered, as I\'ve seen in some other games. Weapon balancing is very important and it\'s gonna take the devs a lot of time to make sure certain skills or classes arent greatly disadvantaged.

[toadman31]

I like the retical for ranged weapons , so your hit or miss chance isn\'t based soley on your skill. I think though if you have a low ranged skill you retical will be very unstable and maybe the arrow wouldn\'t go where you were aiming any way.  I don\'t think 1 shot kills would be fair though,although realistic you should be able to wipe out a huge rock oger by hitting it in the eye.  melee user don\'t have a chance at a 1 hit kill so ranged users shouldn\'t either.

I like the idea of customizable ammo though ,and maybe having a local mage throw on a fire spell or 2 would also be possible.

[Jaxan]

Definately no one-shot kills... nobody likes an  AWP-er (unless they\'re on your team). Aiming would be nice, but the lag issue would probably crush all hopes of such a thing. -ah savor the days of a relatively unbusy PS- Perhaps you should be able select what body part you want to shoot at, without actually aiming FPS style.

Different arrowheads would be nifty, a steel arrow is going to hit a rock golem harder than a little stone thing, but stone arrows would be rediculously cheap.

[mucera]

first i think bow users should not be able to fire arrows in close range combat.that makes no sense and is absolutely impossible.
anyone ever played daoc?
if you wear a chain armour than piercing arrows make more damage,if you wear a magerobe than slash tips make more damage.if you have the right arrow and you make a critical than you can kill chars with low hp like mages in a single shot.
but once you are infight you are practically lost.
that way a bow user can do vast damage,as he should be able to,but he always has to avoid getting to close.
only thing in daoc i didnt like was that scouts could stun you with their shield for 8 seconds.
so they took out their bow and fired another critical at you.
no chance to beat them.
so make them killer at long range,let them suck in closecombat.
that is more or less all i would like to see.
the rest i will just let the devs surprise me^^

[Elegrand]

There should be different types of bows. Has anyone ever played Thief or Thief 2? Well, there should be one bow like that, a standard long-bow, a short bow, a composit long-bow etc. And for those who haven\'t played any of the thief games, tyhe bow was basicly a normal bow (duh) with a little square attached to the side to help accuracy.

[Sunken]

Please, please, put a javellin in the game, i relly love to use Anbidextry and javellin... it\'s my dream
And a one head-shot kill hehe

[Junilia]

The damage of the bows and crossbows i think should be chanced(go the dice! ) within a small range of damage eg. 200 - 220 The more skill or accuracy you have the more dmg you do

one shot kill should be allowed but be used in a more fair way. So the more skill you have the more chance it is to kill in one shot(more chance to hit the bullseye)and weaker or slower the monster is. Even if the damage doesnt reach its health it may kill like a unskilled or dumber monster.

 This has to be a very low chance maybe 0.1 on a very fast and smart monster and the char is highly skilled in the bow and crossbow and for a newb monster probably 75 % (haha die monster die ).

... im confusing myself  ?( so if some of it is wrong dont blame me

[Golbez]

Ranged weapons always cause a bit of a headache to programmers, I think. That is why many games have used an overly simplistic approach when implementing these weapons.

Ideal system, you say? Very well, let me toss a few things into the hodge podge, and decide upon strengths and advantages of each point:

a) Projectile\'s path: When using ranged weapons, if a person is standing between the attacker and the target, said obstacle will be damaged.

The downside of this is the lag that inherently comes with Online gaming and the presence of many models and polygons on screen. Not to mention the stress caused to the server, who now needs to calculate paths between two objects to decide if the target is the one to be wounded or a third random object.


b) Distance: There would be a range of maximum efficiency for the weapon. The longer the distance, the slower the projectile\'s speed, the less the damage.

If the target stands too close, the arrow will not reach its maximum speed, the velocity of the impact between the arrowhead and the body will not be the highest attainable.

Downside of this? Complicated damage equations.


c) Fatal strikes: Self explanatory, a head shot, a perforated heart, etcetera, would incur in instant kill.

Downsides: Gameplay is affected by Counter-Strike masters that are capable of sniping with any projectile weapon. Also, if ranged weapons have this feature, melee weapons should possess it too (A fatal skull-cracking smash with a warhammer, or a slit throat with a dagger, or a stab in the heart...you call it). It has a consequence a very complex combat system with almost random chances of death (since as far as I know we don\'t control how our character swings the weapon)...very annoying.


d) Material fatigue: Bows are fragile instruments in comparison to melee weapons, which were designed to tolerate heavy blows. After a while, the stress caused by the constant firing of arrows would cause bows (particularly long bows) to snap in half. This is because the bow actually bends when charging up an arrow, the pressure is accumulated not in the tips, but the center of the bow.

Crossbows, with their moving parts and rather fragile gears, do not enjoy a long life either.

Downsides: Need to buy new weapons more often. Even so, it is realistic, and I find this idea rather nifty, if you ask me.


May think of more when rested.

[Finfreeze]

I\'d like an increased focus on ranged weapons. While melee weaponry is nice, it\'s a little impractical in a world based on flashy magic spells designed to blow up one quarter of the planet (most fantasy games). It would probably be easiest to do this by implementing guns. Their straight-forward aiming system would be easiest to implement, I think.

A first-person shooter interface for ranged weaponry would probably be as close to ideal as possible. I wish there was a way to implement peripheral vision in first-person mode. I guess that\'s what ambient sounds are for. Aiming and firing would be similar to most FPSs.

Now, while ranged weaponry would be extremely powerful, I don\'t really think allowing one-hit-kills fits with the MMORPG environment. At the same time, I feel that one should be rewarded for hitting vital zones. I would say a simple multiplier to damage (like +50% for head shots, and +25% for pinky shots) depending on where the shot hits would work. Added effects for hitting certain body parts would also be something to look into. For example, if you hit someone in the leg, your target would lose a bit of mobility temporarily. Maybe the effect could last a certain amount of time until the character is healed with a spell.

To encourage multi-class communication, ranged weaponry should require ammo to fire. Ammo would have varying properties, but most of the stronger effect ammo (like freezing bullets) should only be available by making them from scratch. One class could make the basic bullet, while a more magical class could imbue it with certain properties (like homing, burning, exploding). The type of material used in constructing the basic ammo would affect its base power and its ability to be enhanced with magic.

When it comes to skills, one should be able to learn things to enhance things like draw speed, reload rate, chance to cause the target to flinch, accuracy when moving, and accuracy for multiple shots fired in succession. There could even be a skill that causes bullets fired to ricochet off walls to enhance effective range. The effects of most of these skills should probably be minor but noticeable.

I\'d try to stay away from leveling or experience (of any sort) providing major combat benefits, especially in ranged combat. This may be because I\'m not a big fan of the experience point and the tedium and gods it tends to bring with it. Skill caps should probably be kept low and a global cap should be enforced to keep people from being masters at everything. So in this case, a gunner may have to choose from being accurate in all situations, being able to shoot shots in faster succession, or being an all-rounder.

That\'s all I have now. It may not be all that great for this game (considering our current server), but you did say ideal.

[Junilia]

Globez:Your ideas sound very good and realistic. But i dont think that you have to get a new bow when it breaks i think you just have to repair it at a blacksmith or someone else.

If it breaks and it is a very good item it wont be that easy to find it again so its better to just repair it. The blacksmiths should be able to fix any broken or damaged equipment.

Finfreeze: Guns!? i though this was supposed to be early times with bows and swords. Other than that it sounds interesting.

Ive played CS before and it is quite laggy with only guns, a small environment and a few people. Imagine guns, swords, daggers and bows, a gigantic environment and tens of thousands of people and try to aim in that. It would be pretty hard to aim.