Author Topic: RolePlaying in its purest form  (Read 15569 times)

Golbez

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RolePlaying in its purest form
« on: January 15, 2004, 11:49:52 am »
First of all, a big \"Hello\" to those I have not seen since the last time I posted. Something like half a year, I think? Surprised to see me here? I know I am, I thought I would never come back to this place. But that discussion is for another thread.

Anyway, leaving that aside, and going straight to the point of the issue. I wish to ask the staff one simple question (and then I will ramble non-stop for a while, you have been warned):

What will be done to encourage the RolePlaying aspect of PlaneShift?

First of all, allow me to state a few obvious facts here.

PlaneShift is (or will be, if you want to get technical about it) an MMORPG. Most of us in contact with internet and computers by now are acquainted with this label. Not many realise, though, that most games that are categorised this way are not in reality MMORPG\'s per se. \"Why do you, oh you strange little man, claim such thing?\" Let me clarify!

MMORPG means \"Massive Multi-player Online RolePlaying Game\". Following? Good!

Massive Multi-Player means that it involves a vast amount of players to interact in real time in the same virtual area. We are not talking about the 16-player First Person Shooter Multiplayer option, we are speaking of hundreds of players online at the same time, obviously.

Online is pretty obvious and self-explainatory. You need Internet to access the game.

So far, so good. But here comes the tricky part. what does RPG mean? It means, and let me highlight it, underline it and put it in italics: RolePlaying Game

Alright, I caught someone\'s attention, hopefully, by making it stand out that way. Will PlaneShift be a RolePlaying game? That is what I wish to know!

But before we jump to that, we have to know, what is RolePlaying? RolePlaying is the act of empathising with your character\'s life. Your character is a persona created entirely (or mostly, at least) by your imagination. It is, obviously, not -you-. So, via this incredible concept of RolePlaying, you assume control of this character, and being his puppet master, you decide what he/she says, thinks, does and which path he/she takes.

Simple, neh? Only in theory. Coherent and cohesive RolePlaying is actually very hard to pull off. Let us take a game, for example. Many of us know of it, but I will not give its name. Now, I have not played in the p2p servers, neither I intend to, but allow me to picture you a scene of the beta testing stages of the game:

*** With the magic of imagination, we will fly to the virtual world of this game we shall call from now on \"Peanut\".

Your character was created and spawned in some altar with a strange symbol on the stone ground. You were literally in your undies, with only a dagger in hand. Now, you would see dozens of people spawning like this everyday, all of them walking past by you without uttering a word.

The directions to the north and west are blocked by some buildings, which you cannot enter, by the way. So you wander towards the southeast, into some plains where some slimes incessantly spawn and creep towards everyone nearby. There, you would find your way to initiate your survival training: Endlessly slaughter ponds of violent gooey stuff.

You will also find several warrior wannabe\'s doing the same, mumbling nonsensical statements such as \"Lol!!1!1!!\"; \"a/s/l?\"; and \"u sux!\". A language which I found intriguing and lacking the finesse of true English, to be honest, but that you soon will picke up by ear. After some monster bashing, I found myself in the city. I followed the map to the weaponsmith, which was crowded with clients.

More dramatic dialogue befell as I overheard some individuals exclaiming \"wanna buy 1 longswd +1 4 200 gp?\", which was responded with an equally confusing \"i dun have 200 gp. cmon, ill give u teh $ later, k? thx!!1!\"

*** Enough of that headache!

This game was -always- referred to as a MMORPG. Now, do you see where the game fails to fulfill the requirements for such a category? I will help you a bit...There is no RolePlaying whatsoever in any point of the gaming world!

Would your character speak that way? The dialogues -in game- reflect what the -players- want to say, when they should only contain the -character\'s- expressions, feelings, thoughts, experiences, and the like.

The conversations should not touch topics such as the Lakers vs. the Spurs, or how your Math teacher is such a pain in the back of your neck, or how you hate your 56k connection. No! NO! It is RolePlaying! Your characters would never had heard of any of that! They would speak about how frightening the increasing amount of monsters has become, or how he has been a mercenary for hire as a means to buy his food, or how he is weary about the latest orc raid.

Am I getting my point across here? Role Playing is like a theatre play (or a movie, if you despise Shakespeare so much...). Only that this play has no definite end, no strict script. You assume control of a character, and tell the story of his life in the game\'s world through your actions and speech.

That is what RolePlaying is all about. Telling a story. The story of your imaginary person.

I dread to see what those Hack and Slash games for the concept of RolePlaying. It all has come down to the point of levelling up and ostentating the rarest and most expensive items.

What has happened with the noble Knight that wished to uphold the values of Virtue and Honour among all things? What has happened with the Mage that would remain in the room of an inn studying the Art of Healing? Or the charismatic Bard that spread the word about the Knight\'s heroic deeds and the Mage\'s clever tactics?

You see nothing of that online. Not in graphic-based games, at least. Some text games are the only ones that have captured the esence of RolePlaying. In these games, you are ignored or, worse, banned, if you do not RolePlay. Why? Because those are games in which \"killin\' stuffs\" is not the main point, nor is PK, or PvP, or PvNPC.

Storytelling. One simple word.

Now, where have these MMORPGs failed? They give you a pretty game world with a lot of places to explore and visit. They give you a combat system to RolePlay the fighters and wizards, the rogues and bandits. They give you items, wound levels, skill advancement to show how the anonymous farmer rised and grew to become a Paladin in golden plate armour...But...

...But...the players choose not to take advantage of those features, and simply ignore the RolePlaying aspect of the game. The staff does not moderate the gaming world and hit the powerlevellers on the nose with a rolled newspaper, chiding \"Bad boy! Bad boy!\" with a severe tone of voice. We have a community than in general does not encourage and demands a RolePlaying atmosphere.

What to do about this? We obviously cannot kick every person that doesn\'t comply out of the game. It would be an exhausting and pointless tactic (although the staff is entitled to decide who plays and who does not. Moreso in a free game. When no monetary exchange is made, and the player who was banned or forbidden to play has not lost a penny, I believe the development team does not face a possibility of a lawsuit)

First of all, it would be in the TOS (Terms of Service), that the player is expected to RolePlay whenever he logs on and gains access to the IC grid (In Character), although he may leisure at will and converse about anything he likes in the OOC lounge (Out of Character area for taking a break).

For this we need IC and OOC sections. Mmmm...so...what else?

RP Administrators (RolePlay Administrators). These are staff members that dedicate their time to control the flow of the game, so that no abuse of a bug occurs, no player is harrassed, and that everything runs smoothly. They help new players and usually are quite learned in the game\'s general aspect.

We also have different \"speak\" functions. The ability to \"page\" another person to ask them a question, find out where his character is, and the like. Channels that would be used for spreading OOC information.

For example, the leader of the Peanut Guild would say in the Peanut Channel: \"I will be away for 2 weeks since I will visit my grandma so I will not be able to make it to this weekend\'s Guild Meeting. I will make an IC announcement, but keep your heads up!\"

But, and here is what I consider to be most important: The game must contain incentives, and catalysts to incite RolePlaying!

Let us say that character \"Woogie\" is a learned wise mage. He has been seen many times frequenting taverns, speaking about how wizardry should be controlled due to recent attacks by witches and evil sorcerers. He comments ideas about what the Octarchs could do in order to hunt down these evil doers.

Now, Woogie as a character could be an old geezer rambling on nonsensically, but Woogie\'s player is to be commended. He is contributing to make of Hydlaa a more believable world, more coherent, and cohesive. He is encouraging RolePlaying. How can we reward that?

Let me transcript you another scene, this time well RolePlayed, from a text based game I was playing the other day:

***

My character will be called M, his friend, a comrade belonging to the same army, will be called F. A lady nearby will be named S.

M and F met to have a drink at the tavern. There, lady S was sitting at a solitary table going through her letters. M and F drank some wine, laughed and talked about their pasts and their careers in the martial path. However, one of M\'s comments appeared to hurt F\'s feelings (Which does not mean than me, M\'s player, had an argument with F\'s player. We just RolePlayed it that way. See? The actors of Romeo and Juliette are not truly in love, it is the same thing!).

F demanded his satisfaction to be given by a duel. M stood up from the table, unwilling to face his fellow comrade in an encounter that could cause death, for a silly misunderstanding. Lady S spoke up and mentioned how M and F were being childish, incurring M\'s wrath, who told her to stay away. S refused to be commanded like that, and initiated an argument with M.

F continued firm in his idea of challenging M, so they both went outside the tavern and discussed things through, although S quickly followed. M and F ended up settling their differences with an apology from my character\'s side, and a handshake. But M\'s unkind words had, as a consequence, a fierce feud between him and S which appears will never end.

And the three players are enjoying the scenes enormously. Why? Because we are telling the story of how our characters have conflicts and differences, and struggle to remain strong.

***

So, how can we reward good RolePlaying?

First, players can do so with a pat in the back, done via page, that says \"Good scene, I enjoyed that!\". It is very satisfying for the player, let me assure you. Specially when everyone seems to have had a good time.

Staff can toss \'Hooks\' at the players. For example, an Octarch could send a letter to Woogie, explaining how his attention was drawn by his ideas, and offering to start a \'Circle of Wizards\', which would have Woogie as the leader. This \'Circle of Wizards\' would control all magical activities and the use of the six ways of magic in Hydlaa.

Want another similar example? Garith is a particularly strong and honourable Ynnwn. On several occasions, he was seen fending off muggers and assaulters that tried to harm defenseless denizens. He also aided Guards and Soldiers in their struggle against merciless hordes of monsters.

The Captain of the Yliakum Army could use some people like Garith, so he decides to approach him one day, and invite him to join the military force as a Lieutenant.

See the pattern? Reward characters, give them an interesting role to play that has been earned by their actions.

----

I will stop my train of thought right here as this post is undoubtedly long enough for all of you readers. If you managed to go through it without falling asleep, you have my appreciation. And a hug too!

I warn you, though, I could go on like this for pages and pages, but I am afraid I am hitting the 12345 characters per post limit...

Post your comments, speak up!

And Happy RolePlaying!

- Golbez

Otharor

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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2004, 12:38:04 pm »
Welcome back Golbez.

I agree with the general idea of you very long post, altough i think there is a big diffence between the creating-and-expieriencing-a-story-or-situation-part and the use of correct English.

I think i have a solution for \'punishing\' the powerlevellers: make the level-up (or skill-up, whatever) very difficult afther a while.

Example: for reaching skill-level 5 you need 100.000 (10^5) exp. points from that skill, and if you want to reach level 6 you just need 1.000.000 (10^6) exp.p. from the skill. For level 7 then you need 10.000.000 (10^7) exp.p. I admit that this is a bit to extrme example and it doesn\'t fir for the lower levels, but i hope you see my point. I think this is also more realistic.

I think the devs will find a good solution for this problem.
Ex-Otharor, now Taldor

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Golbez

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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2004, 01:06:15 pm »
No! No no no! And a thousand times no!

That was totally not the point of my thread. I used those expressions simply because the exaggeration of the way the characters express in game make the point more obvious, I think. Well...maybe I thought wrong.

I would be equally irritated if I see someone walking down the street, exclaiming quite eloquently:

\"Attention warriors and explorers alike! I sell long swords +5 for 500 gps!\"

I mean that! The \"long sword +5\" kind of dialogue, which expresses statistics, where noone in reality uses those numbers that way.

I mean the lack of coherence in the characters\' dialogues. How they include words and expressions that do not make any sense at all in the world\'s atmosphere.

It is not what I want to see people speaking in archaic thee\'s and thou\'s. But I would like to see the characters speaking like they would! If you lived in Yliakum, how would you talk? How would you act? That is what I mean!

Your character wouldn\'t say \"Jesus Christ! Look at that!\" (What is Christianism to him, after all?). Rather, he would go \"By the name of Laanx!\" or \"For Talad\'s sake!\" or \"For a Dwarf\'s beard!\", and so on.

Is it more visible now?

And \"Experiencing a story\" is the very core of \"Role Playing\". That is the idea! Where are the stories? Where are the major plots? The thrilling argument that keeps us going? That is what should exist in a MMORPG. The concept of progression. The dynamic world that changes according to the community\'s actions.

If not, you don\'t have any RolePlaying. You are not playing a MMORPG, but just a MMOG. ;)

Ideas for preventing powerlevelling? Exp levels? Leave that to another thread that is dedicated to discuss skill advancement from a mathematical point of view.

I want to discuss other things here, the lack of interest in the story-telling facet of a true and ideal MMORPG.

Dexlan

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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2004, 01:42:17 pm »
Yawn,;)  what a long read but i got the point just reading the subject!
I agree with your post in many ways but the problem is It needs to be policed by the players themselves. And once some one has been found not to be role playing at all even after been informed that this is the way the game is played. How are they to be stopped?

The game is free and broadband internet is on the increase, there will be hords of newbie\'s constantly.
So even with players correcting the non roleplaying players there will be a fairly large amount of in game non roleplaying talk!

It needs to be made clear when users are learning the interface that only roleplaying talk is in one channel and off topic nongame talk goes in the other.
How will repeat offenders be delt with?
They can create new accounts and so on.
Will the ignor button be enough?
Maybe there character could be branded in some way so there still in game and every one will know how this person should be treated?
My in game character\'s are Wolfshade and Kayto! no they wont try to join two different Guilds :rolleyes: !!!!

Moogie

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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2004, 02:57:16 pm »
I read through the whole post, so I guess I get a hug! Yay! *hugs back*

Hehe. Okay, well, I see your points. I\'m sure the devs will have ways of encouraging proper roleplaying. But I don\'t think you should get carried away with the \'roleplaying\' and totally forget the \'game\' part. After all, a game is played because it is fun, and some people just play because they\'re with friends and it\'s a fun game to play. They might not be good at roleplaying, or might just not like doing it all the time.

I myself don\'t usually roleplay. Infact I spend most of the time talking OOC. But I don\'t speak like a l33t-d00d, like in your examples, and many many others are the same. Half the time, roleplayers don\'t even realise that I\'m talking OOC, but if I notice they\'re roleplaying, I will play along.

I\'d hate to do it all the time though... it makes doing anything drag on and become a right bore really. And that isn\'t good when I\'m supposed to be playing a (game = fun). :)

I think kicking and banning players simply because they arn\'t completely detatched from reality is a little harsh. It\'s nice to play along, but I don\'t think it should be forced for those of us who enjoy the \'game\' part more than the \'RP\'.

Well, that\'s my 2$ anyways.


(On a related note, CB will have IC and OOC chat channels, apparently).

Axsyrus

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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2004, 03:51:34 pm »
I read everything too, nice post you made :)

There will be different channels in CB like moogie said, and the GM\'s will have the ability to shut people up who don\'t follow the rules(/mute anyone who talks OOC in an IC channel), it\'s as simple as that :)

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Ice_Phoenix

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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2004, 05:47:54 pm »
zZZ... zZZ... Ah??? What??? The thread is over??? I\'ve made it! I\'ve read it!
OK and now the fun part... I agree that pure role-playing must be... but it is us, players, who make it work. If you want to RP, then...RP! If you don\'t... Well I don\'t think many people in Internet can RP for real. I had an experience of RP in real life and it\'s unbelievable... I can try to think as my char would but asking a newbie to do the same??? You don\'t want PS to be a game 4 a bunch of old veterans of RPG...

PS where\'s my hug??? :)

Proud Spellsword of the Arcane Order.

Draklar

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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2004, 06:11:27 pm »
well I come here directly from p&p RPGs so I\'m here just to roleplay :P
I just can\'t quest and level all the time, it gets boring for me very quick and usually I start to seek a way to roleplay life or whatever...

way to increase roleplaying among players? reduction of using player-skills...
AKA Skald

Quwaar

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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2004, 06:21:23 pm »
Wow thats quite a post. But its a good one, and worth to be read. Woei I got hugged :)

I totally agree with you, I really dont like the \"dont think, kill everything you see\" RPGs, there has to be a story. But it will be very hard for a newbie to get along if there are a lot of storys, and myths, and legends.

The idea of several channels is good too, so we can sort everythong out. Im really going to roleplay seriously, I never really did, but I want to. (I didnt do it, because I had to pay ;) )
Smile... Tomorrow will be worse

Caldazar

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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2004, 06:30:11 pm »
The best post I\'ve ever seen on this forum, no question about that.
I agree with you, I came to PS looking for a good mmorpg that actually had some RP in it. IC and OOC channels seems to be a good idea, but I\'m not sure. I don\'t think this is enough.
I would like a few thoughts on RP and its role in PS, posted by a dev.
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Xordan

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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2004, 06:42:52 pm »
Quote
What has happened with the Mage that would remain in the room of an inn studying the Art of Healing?


Many would say that would be powerleveling. I believe it\'s possible to roleplay a perfectionist. So powerleveling doesn\'t really exist in an rpg.
*awaits the stupid arguments*

Draklar

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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2004, 06:56:14 pm »
yes, it is possible to roleplay that (however better example would be mage that seeks for nothing more but power)
but there is difference between when you know yer roleplaying and when you know yer powerleveling
you may lie to yourself, but what\'s the point?
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Erthel

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2004, 09:04:06 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar

way to increase roleplaying among players? reduction of using player-skills...


Reduction of using player skills or character skills? the only way i know to reduce player skills is watching tv...
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art reflect soul.

Draklar

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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2004, 09:12:36 pm »
neither.
I said reduction of using player-skills
as in make fighting depend on character-skills only...
or if yer a smart guy in rl, but rp simple warrior, you shouldn\'t be able to solve hard riddles...
stuff like that

hehe... yea, TV sucks :D
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Xelon

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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2004, 09:26:25 pm »
well i think if someone talks *completely* out of charachter (i agree with moggie on this one) then yeah i think he should be somewhat shunned by community in general, but i like the idea of different channels. Although i dont see a problem with powerlevellers as long as they roleplay aswell.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 09:27:07 pm by Xelon »
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