Author Topic: RolePlaying in its purest form  (Read 15530 times)

hybrasyl

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If I may respond to that
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2004, 10:19:33 pm »
First off, let me give you a warm welcome back and let you know that this is how I see things as they stand.
Since my position currently seems to be developing in the chat section of the game, let me give ya a couple of spoilers.

First off, this is PRIMARILY a role playing game.  Meaning you are expected to be in chracter at ALL times, and use the OOC (Out of Character)channels (which you can mute client side if you choose) for OOC conversation.

Secondly, there is a /ignore function, if you see people doing this behavior talking OOC in the primary channel you can / ignore them and poof, no more problem.

Also I have just finished the /mute module. that will be given to GMs to shut someone up, who keeps talking OOC outside the OOC channel.

Anything more would have to be up to the players.

So stay in character it\'s alot of fun :)

Kiern

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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2004, 10:22:03 pm »
Golbez, nice to see you! :)

I read through your entire post, and while I agree with you almost completely, I can tell you right now from the way Planeshift currently stands is that is not going to happen...although really there is no point to enforce Roleplaying at the moment (not really having enough background...or game), people who wouldn\'t are the ones being aimed at currently...if it doesn\'t happen in CB then, since the community will be more stable, I doubt it will ever happen since it would be even harder to throw a big rule like that in there.

Also, I usually stay in character all the time (except during PMs) since mine basically reflects myself anyways :P

Quote
Originally posted by Mogura
Well, that\'s my 2$ anyways.


It\'s 2 cents...right?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 10:27:14 pm by Kiern »

Draklar

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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2004, 10:51:08 pm »
right now PS is at very good roleplaying stage...
I mean the ingame community. There\'s not much to do ingame, just crystal hunt and roleplay. And there\'s a result... that community is filled with people that are actually roleplaying most of the time.
AKA Skald

Kiern

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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2004, 10:57:48 pm »
Yeah, right now if they started to enforce it or at least once CB starts, it would slip easily in since it goes pretty well without their help anyways right now...but if it happens when most people do not (which I expect will happen when combat is introduced...go figure :P) it will most likely be ignored (such as the rules of this board) and they can\'t really ban their entire community, well, they wouldn\'t want to I mean ;).

I\'m guessing though, since acraig mentioned something about advisor role, something like that, that they will also have some moderators (since I don\'t know how big the area is...) but my guess is that they would only really enforce things such as bad language and otherwise act as advisor.

Those are assumptions of course, but I think their pretty accurate by observing the attitude right now.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 10:58:26 pm by Kiern »

Draklar

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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2004, 11:07:20 pm »
*sigh*
so true...
if they\'re gonna run it same way as the boards then we can forget about having fun with roleplaying :(
well... you can always find some smaller community that will stick to roleplaying... like some guilds...
AKA Skald

Golbez

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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2004, 11:12:34 pm »
To the ones who read the entire post, no matter if you fuond it boring, pointless or \"The best post on the forum ever\" (Heh...that tickled me :]), consider yourself hugged!

Now, to the long yawn-inspiring rambling...The game is a \"RolePlaying Game\", as it is explicitly stated in the site. The game is not the set of skills, nor the monster bashing, nor the levelling, nor the pretty graphics. Those are, granted, a big part of it. But they are the most superficial layers! By themselves, they make a ludicrously dull game. What are they true function? They serve as tools for the players. Tools for what? RolePlaying.

The core of an RPG, is the player base. The unanswered question is, how do we get to the player base, so that they understand that this game is not about the eternal struggle against PCs and NPCs alike to be the one with the most amazing skills.

RolePlaying Game = Players assuming a role.

Not complicated, eh? Quite complex, in reality. How come games like Everquest, Ultima Online, Dark Ages of Camelot...all failed to provide that RolePlaying experience that they have advertised so much?

They are, yes, in a technical aspect, great games. Lots of features, a staff that permanently performs updates, a stable company taking care of servers, technical support, and so on...

But they fail in the most important area. They do not convey a believable, enrapturing world. Sure, some people get addicted to it, but such addiction is mainly provoked by the player\'s ambition to be the highest possible level, that soon becomes an obsession.

I have been addicted to a game or two, but not because I wanted to be the most powerful fighter (Yes, I almost always RolePlay a melee combat warrior, it gives more possibilities if you consider the idea deeply than it appears at a first glance), but because I was thrilled by the way a story, a huge plot was taking place and my character was forming a part of it!

The combat system, the dynamic economy, the crafting code...those should be a trampoline for the player to say \"Look, my character is a fighter/a mage/a merchant/a weaponsmith\".

If you are only going to put together a program, add some features like battles, magic, item creation, and experience, but as a staff you do not control the flow of plots, you do not create characters that tell a story...then do not call it a RolePlaying Game. Name it whatever you want, but claiming it is an RPG when no RPing takes place...is that not false advertising?

In theory, there are very simple ways of encouraging the players to empathise with their characters. One of them is not diminishing the usage of skills. But it has indeed to do with them: Diminish the relative importance of skills.

Underline the word \"relative\", and think of it for a moment. What is more important in a character, I ask? His personality, thoughts, loyalties, and emotions? Or his skills? Both are important, yes! Who needs a cook that cannot bake a cake? But which is the one that adds depth to a character? Which one makes it interesting? Which one makes it loved or hated?

The personality, the esence of a character. Otherwise, it is just a set of number, percentages, and statistics.

There is one main skill that is often forgotten. The player\'s skill to control his or her character. It engulfs everything, from the ability to master the basic movements, to the more difficult task of being able to make the right decision for the character, from an IC perspective. (What did he just say??? That makes no sense!), some of you will croak. Let me, once again, use an example.

Suppose that Merlassia (I know, my names are awfully odd) is an average inhabitant of Yliakum. Nothing extraordinary about her, she is neither very skilled at the blade, neither is she defenseless. The player, however, claims that she has a flawless sense of honour, and clearly differenciates between right and wrong. She is, in fact, alligned with \"Good\", and remains always on the good side of the law. You get the picture, your basic \"Goody-two-shoes\".

One day, walking down the street, she sees a warrior carrying a heavy bag with all his spare armor and weapons. He is too encumbered, and unfortunately a finely crafted silver long sword falls from his backpack. Now, Merlassia and her player have two choices:

a) Do what the player would do. \"That sword will boost my skills, I will be able to cut and slash and deliver more damage with it. I will pick it, and keep it.\"

b) Do what Merlassia would do. \"Oh boy! That poor man dropped his sword! I should help him and carry some of his weight for him!\"

Call me weird, call me idealistic. But as an avid RolePlayer, I consider the second one to be more fun! If Merlassia was a heartless cuthroat, and I were her player, you can bet that I would make her keep that blade. But the IC actions depend from my character!

I confess one thing, I never played a session of table top D&D (None of my acquaintances liked those games, neither it is popular in my country). But I know what they are like, I have read the rules, I love the idea! But -those- are the true and hardcore RolePlaying Games.

The players must commit themselves and realise that giving the priority in the game to the skill advancement is what ultimately makes it dull and a bore. It becomes nothing more than a bunch of pixels running around wildly and mindlessly wiping out hordes of incessantly re-spawning monsters.

My point is this:

PlaneShift has an unlimited potential, but it also the possibility of becoming \"Just one more of a kind\". After the game is released, two major things will happen.

1) PlaneShift will be another product in an already saturated market. Games of this kind are popping out of nowhere and the concept is no longer original, nor even close to being as attractive as it was five years ago. It will not receive a remarkable critical acclaim, and albeit it may have a large player base due to the fact that it is free, it will still be \"That free MMORPG\".

2) PlaneShift will deliver a completely new and innovative experience that will utterly re-shape the RPG genre. The standard of the MMORPG will be higher, players will expect better and deeper RolePlaying games. Which is a necessity, the genre is fading from what I can gather.

Remember those point and click adventure games? Monkey Island, Indiana Jones, Leisure Suit Larry...LucasArts and Sierra being seen almost like \"gods\" in that genre. No one can argue that genre has died. I am not claiming or yelling \"I am a prophet, hear me!\", but what I see is a series of games that are so alike, that their similarities will simply drive them towards extinction just because no new features are added. There is no \"Wow factor\".

As I said once before at Kada\'s Tavern:

Powerlevelling? No thanks, I prefer reading a book.

- Golbez

Kixie

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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2004, 11:21:39 pm »
This is so exteme its crazy! Ban people just because they dont role play? Thats the craziest thing ever! It sounds like those extremist preachers. Sure they have a good cause an maybe a somewhat good idea but definally taking it WAY to far! Just because i say \"hey didja get level 20 in ur cooking today?\" I shouldnt be banned! I totally recomend roleplaying and I think it is totally fun! But at the same time I\'m not going to roleplay the whole time. it seems almost impossible to me. I mean how are you going to have conversations with friends at all? \"Hey once you get level 20 strength are you logging off?\"  

Also i love typing all funky! Nothing gets a buzz like runing around screaming \"EYE AM DUH L33t!!!1 lol But really cmon banning someone cus they dont roleplay is like... Sending a guy to jail cus he smoked pot once! Wait... That would put you in jail... Ok heres a better situation \"It would be like sending a guy to jail for not putting hot sauce on his Taco Bell burrito\" Some people love the spicey, some people dont. I love the spicey but on other days i have indegestion and i skip on the hot sauce. And hell you may not like the burrito at all but you can go to burger king (r00nscape) if ya feel that way.

PS: I would never say jesus christ in game. Its too long i usually say something like \"HOLY (word i cant say on message board)!!!1

Golbez

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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2004, 11:23:18 pm »
Oh, and a little add-on...For all of those that claimed RolePlaying get boring if you are forced to do so all the time, who said you had to be forced to RolePlay?

Did I not suggest an OOC lounge for players to hang around, and be themselves? Chat with your buddies, laugh a bit, tell some jokes. And when you feel like it, go back to the adventure! And back at making a name for your character (respected or feared, your choice!).

And if I could hear from the developer\'s point of view on this one, I think it would add more topic that are worthy of being considered!

Happy RolePlaying!

- Golbez

Golbez

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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2004, 11:30:40 pm »
Mmmm...I see Whemyfield\'s point, but to be frank, I doubt Whemy read the entirity of my messages.

Anyway, that silly \"l337 sp33k\" has to stop somewhere. It detracts from the game\'s enviroment. I am completely against such drastic and aesthetic deformation of a language. And *gasp* guess what? English is not even my native language! Maybe I am overly sensitive about it, but I see nothing positive about the usage of numbers and other random characters to represent letters. It is a pain in the eyes to read a sentence entirely written that way. But off to something else...

Pot? Jail? Taco Bell? Hot Sauce? Eh...right!

Read the post above, nobody expects you to -roleplay- all the time. But if the game is divided into an IC grid, and an OOC area for players to rest from the RolePlaying, then everyone is happy. Am I right? Mmm?

- Golbez

Xordan

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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2004, 11:37:38 pm »
hmm, I don\'t agree with you totally, but I think that there must be some balance between rp\'ing, and \'playing\'. The Devs can only do so much in a game, especially as their doing it for nothing. EQ\'s downfall was it\'s lack of reality, for example; If you failed to complete an objective for a quest, you failed the quest... In a game which is realistic, and fully supportive of roleplaying, even if u fail one part of that quest, you should still be able to complete it, but using a different method. Also, there must be something attractive in the game, which will even keep those \'133t ub3r\' people happy. To powerlevel is fun... but it gets boring once u realise that there was no actual reason to get to the level of skill that u\'r at. The game must be molded, so that all players will be forced into some type of roleplaying, even without them realising it. It is possible, but it\'s very hard to do.

Golbez

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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2004, 11:56:42 pm »
Warning people in a RolePlaying Game because they don\'t RolePlay? Oh yes, I see the totally lack of sense in that. Pardon my nonsensical babbling. Oh wait...

It does make sense!

But really, games are not created to \"please everyone\". Quake was not created for \"Trivial Pursuit\" kind of fellows. \"Monkey Island\" was not meant for those who liked \"Falcon 3.0\". \"Command & Conquer\" is certainly not recommended to someone that is helplessly inclined to play \"Super Bowl\".

You cannot expect to make everyone happy. There is no game that will be universally loved and praised. If you do not enjoy RolePlaying, what the heck are you doing in a RolePlaying game in the first place?

I do not think there is much else to that, really.

EDIT: Not directed to anyone in particular. I do not attack posters like that ;)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2004, 12:00:41 am by Golbez »

Monketh

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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2004, 12:08:41 am »
Quote
Originally posted by whemyfield
Also i love typing all funky! Nothing gets a buzz like runing around screaming \"EYE AM DUH L33t!!!1 lol


Who so ever thinks 1337-533|<1//G is cool and healthy for games should be taken out and shot.  

I like the idea of IC and OOC channels, those would be very useful.  Some of these ideas are very good.  I try to rp, not that I\'m good at it. :P

Btw, nice rants Golbez. :)
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

Xordan

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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2004, 01:41:17 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Golbez
 If you do not enjoy RolePlaying, what the heck are you doing in a RolePlaying game in the first place?


N00b bashing of course... Duh. :P

Golbez

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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2004, 01:46:59 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Xordan
N00b bashing of course... Duh. :P


Bah! I compare that to playing Quake Arena just to explore the maps.

In a game with such a limited amount of PK, I am afraid that the \"N00b bashing\" raids will be rather dim. If I wanted to brandish my \"Sword of w00tness +3\" and ostentate my \"Armour of l337ness anti-boo boos\", I would head off towards Runescape.

Ack, I mentioned that name...

EDIT: It is censored! :D Thank you moderators!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2004, 01:48:42 am by Golbez »

Bigfoot

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« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2004, 01:51:08 am »
Havent read it all, so no idea if its been mentioned but id like to point out strict RPGing (which is something I back myself) is impossable within a combat situation, and abbreviated language like \"inc adds, ast MA, CH rot, DS Tank\" and such are a sad neccessatiy.

Lol, This statements pretty lofty isnt it?

Quote
2) PlaneShift will deliver a completely new and innovative experience that will utterly re-shape the RPG genre.
 

although its a rather common trait of PS fans.