Author Topic: RolePlaying in its purest form  (Read 15742 times)

Golbez

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« Reply #90 on: January 19, 2004, 10:47:52 pm »
An In Game school? I am not too excited about the idea, I think it breaks the whole RolePlaying concept...UNLESS...

...Unless the In Game school is set in the OOC grid. Perhaps weekly or monthly meetings at the Player\'s Lounge, if such space ever exists in PlaneShift, can be dedicated to a \"School for RolePlaying\".

These meetings would be some kind of interactive tutorial for new players. Or a series of tutorials! In each session different topics and situations could be discussed and those who wish to do so may voice their opinion.

Each session would be logged and uploaded to a site so any who was unable to attend may read what was talked about and offer their own input.

I would also like to reiterate an idea of staff members holding the position of \"RP Administrators\". They would guide new players, help them with the basics, encourage them to RolePlay and try to make them feel comfortable with the style of the game.

However, this position can be very demanding in terms of time and dedication. Not to mention that not everyone owns the gift of being able to teach something to a complete stranger, and being patient enough with thick-skulled newcomers ;) In addition to being filtered, developers would have to keep an eye on these staff members, because since they would have extra powers and commands (the ability to teleport from one place to the other, to aid new players in an IC manner, for example), abuse and preferences towards a clique must be prevented.

And volunteers that wish to become a RP Admin should be aware that they would sacrifice personal In Game time to help others.

Many considered me to be an \"anti-newlie\" because yes, this sort of RolePlaying style can be a tad elitist. But no, I do not cast new players away from the game. Totally the opposite, I would welcome them and be willing to give them a few tips so they begin to learn how to RolePlay and behave in a game of this genre.


Now, Ice Pheonix, the lawful good Knight you describe may react in an infinite number of different ways.

First of all, assuring that your character is \"Lawful Good\" does not necessarily mean that said character has a pleasant personality, or is not greedy, or has many notable flaws :) For example, a character I enjoy RolePlaying is the one who has the values and honour of a Paladin, yet he is not the classic well-mannered, polite and always correct stereotype. Think about it, a Paladin with an arrogant gait and that is easily angered leads to many fun scenes, and is a nice target for roguish characters who enjoy mocking and teasing the \"good guys\".

I once played a brutish thug whose most heartful desire was to become a Knight. First, he had to be a Sir\'s Squire, and then be deemed worthy of Knighthood. His biggest flaw? He was not well-mannered, he was not subtle, and prone to swear like a sailor. Not to mention that he had serious problems with his diction and a terribly rude accent.

Yet he was truly a loyal, noble man with ambitious and honest goals. I had much fun playing him and he became a loved character for many people due to his unique-ness. But right there you have an example of different character that breaks a stereotype. And probably he would have never been a Knight, yet he was fun to play for me and others, and that is what matters the most.

Now, Yann touches a very delicate nerve: Villainy. It is not very hard to come up with the personality and ideals for a villain, or an \"evil\" character. But it is extremely hard to pull that off.

A bully is the lowest form of a villain, although that does not mean playing as one is boring or dull. Just think of all the bar fights and thrilling encounters ;)

But the leader of an organisation that has power and riches as ulterior motives, for example, is very hard to RolePlay. Why? Because one cannot be this kind of villain without being surrounded by other loyal followers ready to fight for the sake of their leader and organisation.

Villains also have to be aware that, in the long run, their characters may have to serve jail time, or be punished due to their criminal actions that have a negative effect on society. We all would like our characters to succeed in their goals, but a psychotic wizard that wishes to take over the city of Yliakum has little to no possibility of success. ;)

How can we reward these players, to encourage them to grace us with their enjoyable evil characters? :D First, they should be supported by the plotters (You know, those people in charge of designing major plots for the game, and that supervise some player plots as well, there should always be many of those since sometimes special actions and scenes need of a particular code or command that only a member of the staff can use.) as much as the \"good guys\". If there is more preference towards one side or the other, an imbalance will be created and the fun can be ruined by having the good guys defeating the bad guys more often than not, or viceversa.

Secondly, as there are many organisations that back up the actions of the characters whose ways are noble and honourable, there should be certain power cells that wish to see their own goals and needs fulfilled. For example, a corrupt Vigesimi that is wealthy enough to organise some sort of mafia, and is conspicuous enough to hide his true intentions could offer a portion of his riches to a villain so that he pulls off a special assignment.

Or circles of wizards may wish for their magic arts to be purely and unconditionally free, thus encouraging their apprentices and mages to use their talents to weaken and defeat those who wish to stablish a limit in the use of magic (That is to say, those who want to promote laws to decide to what point the use of magic is acceptable, and regulate these arts so that they are not abused. A \"Magic police\", to be more simplistic)

Events and ideas like these allow for characters alligned to evil to BE  apart of the society and plot of the game. They would play major roles when telling the classic story of good versus evil, and it would be interesting if evil could win once or twice. Not an absolute victory that means the world changes forever and the government of Yliakum is overthrown, or anything extreme like that, of course ;)

*Gasp!* The sixth Octarch was assassinated by an unknown bandit! His corpse was taken away so that he could not be revived! What will we do? What will happen now?

Imagine that as the main gossip the day after the poor Octarch was chosen as the target. :-]

To sum up, evil characters need to be backed up and encouraged by the community as much as good characters. If there is an extremist predominance of one or the other, the lack of balance would cause the game to quickly become dull.

In some games, villains are marked and cast away. Craftsmen will not sell them items and armour, they are attacked by anyone and everyone because they have a flag toggled on that allows for everyone to see his negative reputation, and they end up being chased to death.

We should not be this way with those that give us a little excitement in our RolePlaying. Evil characters are fun, after all :)

Villainy is a tough stunt to pull off, but do not be discouraged! It is rewarded with unforgettable moments when the RolePlay is good.

- Golbez

Monketh

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« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2004, 03:22:21 am »
Yes Golbez, the Newbie school would be an OOC place.  It still is a game, and tutorials to a game are hard to learn when you\'re in character.  
Otherwise, how would a midieval person explain the space-bar?
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

XpYtZ

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2 hrs later
« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2004, 07:58:04 am »
I can?t believe its taken me two hours to read three pages!! 8o

I like most of the points that have been made and am only writing to boost my posts and offer my compliments to everyone that has been discussing this.
I have played tons of pen and paper games, read tons of reviews and played a fair share of the usual ?RPG? games that are out there and I was always disappointed with the vast number of people that were never even trying to be in character. Everything has its place in a virtual world and the fact that so many people choose to power level their characters is ?I believe- in part due to the fact that the games have nothing better in them to do than hack your way through the ever revolving series of dungeons. I think it is possible to have a game that is more, as some might say, ?true? to the nature of role playing. In my opinion it only takes some people that are willing to put it into practice.
I once played a MUD or something that was online and text based called Dragon Realms and I loved it until they wanted XX amount of dollars a month for me to play. Why did I love it? Because people were not driven by their levels or ?circles? they were driven by the world. You could not help but be pulled into the story because it was everywhere in the world. This and that little place that had this or that little secret. Sometimes it was aggravating because you couldn?t figure out the riddle and other times you were the only person that seemed to know about it.
I think that with enough story or ?background? any place can become a good RPG environment but as has been said, I think that it will take everyone caring enough to actually act on the ideas here posted, in game, before it will actually happen.
No I don?t think that it can be forced on people and there will always be that person that just doesn?t seem to get it. But I have met a lot of people in the real world that don?t seem to get it either. Bygones?as the saying goes.
All that can happen is to try and make the best experience for you and your fellow role players, yourself.
As far as a school goes. I like the idea and really liked it when I read about the site that would be developed on the same subject. Though I am not sure of the feasibility of the school. Tutorials are always good though, than at least everyone knows the same info to start and you don?t hear ?hey how do I jump?Where are the monsters?etc.? constantly.

Peace out. :D

PS: I speak English natively and can?t communicate as well as some of you guys. Behold the glory of the United States educational system.

PPS: And to repeat. I speak English natively and can?t understand that number talking stuff. ?(

Otharor

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« Reply #93 on: January 20, 2004, 01:16:09 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by XpYtZ
PPS: And to repeat. I speak English natively and can?t understand that number talking stuff. ?(

Nobody can, but the others won\'t atmit it. ;-) I think for example l33t means leet, because e and 3 are \'almost\' the same. For other letters there are other numbers. Another trick to make it even more UnDeRsTaNdAbLe is to change the height of the letters.
Itought it was originally hacker-slang, but now every noob that want\'s to be cool, uses leet.

PS correct me if i\'m wrong.
Ex-Otharor, now Taldor

http://www.bloodclawinc.tk

Axsyrus

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« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2004, 02:01:05 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Golbez
An In Game school? I am not too excited about the idea, I think it breaks the whole RolePlaying concept...UNLESS...

...Unless the In Game school is set in the OOC grid. Perhaps weekly or monthly meetings at the Player\'s Lounge, if such space ever exists in PlaneShift, can be dedicated to a \"School for RolePlaying\".

I think the newbie zone will become an OOC grid even without any schools or other anti-roleplaying things, all there will be talked about there is how the controls work, where the forums are, etc. so having a school in such a zone can do little to no harm IMO.

Quote

I would also like to reiterate an idea of staff members holding the position of \"RP Administrators\". They would guide new players, help them with the basics, encourage them to RolePlay and try to make them feel comfortable with the style of the game.

They are called \"advisors\", CB will already have those ;)

Axsyrus the Azure - Ruler of the Winds
Member of The Arcane Order\'s Council

Grakrim

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« Reply #95 on: January 20, 2004, 02:28:57 pm »
Quote
hey are called \"advisors\", CB will already have those

I thought the \"Advisors\" are just CB\'s version of declared newb-helpers, although I may be wrong...

I like the concept of this in-game RP school, but I guarentee it wouldn\'t work in practice.  RP is something that can\'t be taught so easily, its a hidden skill that must be released and honed, for some its more difficult than others.  As I said earlier, the only way to ensure that new players participate in RP is to show it to them in action, or possibly something greater.  We could have some sort of \"Newb Zone Player\'s Troop\", a travelling group of avid RPers that travel from newb area to newb area to spread the praises of roleplaying to the newest citizens of our realm.

There will always be someone who won\'t RP, most likely the fabled \"uber-l33t n00b\"; but these are most likely undesirable people  that we don\'t need in our roleplayer\'s utopia.  I\'ve never, in my now 8-months of experience in Planeshift and many years in other online venues, known one of these \"uber-l33t\" to actually clean up to become an acceptable person, I\'m not sure that\'s possible.  The closest one I can think of is Gayne, but he was still pretty annoying after we broke him...  Eliminate the powerlevers and \"uber-l33t\" (they probably coincide to a great deal) and I\'m certain we\'ll have our RP-enforced society.  You see, as has been mentioned in the past, we have a grand opportunity here.  This is a free, gratis game!  Powerlevelers are the largest target group in this niche genre we call MMORPGs, so it makes sense, if a commercial game wants to be sucessful, that it must cater to this group; but this game isn\'t commercial, here success isn\'t measured in dollars or yen, but in players, in us, the regulars.  PS will be succesful if we are happy; and seeing as how our level of expectations do not coincide with the average \"uber-l33t\"/powerleveler\'s needs and wants in a MMORPG, I\'m certain this is something we won\'t have to worry about for long.

Just my 2 tria...
\" I think you should just follow Grakrim\'s advice ;)\"

\"A universe is enough for more than one opinion.\" - Maxximus

Kiern

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« Reply #96 on: January 20, 2004, 10:04:40 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Grakrim
Quote
hey are called \"advisors\", CB will already have those

I thought the \"Advisors\" are just CB\'s version of declared newb-helpers, although I may be wrong...


Yeah, advisors will be people like Mogura. (In other words, help the newbies)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2004, 10:05:10 pm by Kiern »

Golbez

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« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2004, 10:54:20 pm »
Be it out of boredom, or out of curiosity, allow me to revive this thread so I can have a few questions of mine answered. Enlighten me with your responses, then!

The current advisors you speak of, that are there to \"help newbies\". First, who are they and how are they chosen? Or is it a nice term given to generous players who wish to explain the basic commands and give a quick tutorial to the newcomers? What are their duties, if they are defined?

However, I have a few concerns.

It has been stated that Mogura is an advisor. Perfect, very kind of her! She helps people who recently discovered the game and help them learn their first few ropes.

Now, she has declared that RolePlaying is not her main concern. So, are there people who \"mentor\" others (very liberal usage of the verb, mind you) regarding that aspect of the game?

So who is in charge of moderating the in-game RolePlaying? Who controls that everyone plays fair and nice? Who jumps in and difuses a conflict when two players are having an argument?

That is what I mean with a RolePlay Administrator.

And these would be the guys that get together with the staff and say. \"Hey! I have an idea. We can create a few temporary characters that we would be controlling, and create a plot to hook some people. Is \"X\" and \"Y\" doable?\"

This is actually very done in many online RolePlaying games. Although I am yet to see it in a MMORPG. A few \"VIP characters\" are created and controlled by the RP Admins to help spread the word about a plot (not so openly, it is done subtly via the wonderful art of RPing ;) ) and leave hints and tips so that many characters may get involved.

They usually have a short life, as they are not of much use after the plot is over.

Idealistically speaking, players themselves are the ones who are to create the stories and plots through their IC actions. But sometimes things are a little slow, or certain plots cannot be performed without the help of the staff. And these VIPs allow the staff to keep an eye on the plot, and steer it in one way or the other so as to provide the players with some good and much needed fun.

Besides, if the idea of a school for new players is actually implemented, these guys would be the teachers and hold the sessions and meetings. ;)

The concept is still quite rough around the edges and is in need of some polishing. Perhaps someone could toss in a few more ideas?

- Golbez

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« Reply #98 on: January 25, 2004, 12:06:13 am »
Mentors, teachers, advisors... Call them whatever you like, but the main idea is as simple as that - they must LOVE RPGs. So I think that this \"work\" must be totally voluntary - anyone who thinks he can be an advisor must have a oppotunity to become one...
They of course will suffer the gameplay 4 the good of newbies, and I think it would be fair to give them something in exchange (e.g. give them some XP for every newbie advised). Yes, that brings up the problem of powerlevelers wanting to get XP just 4 sitting on their butts 24\\7 and typing some crap. I think we\'ll be able to overcome this problem.
The main idea is - free access to becoming advisors...

Proud Spellsword of the Arcane Order.

Davis

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« Reply #99 on: January 25, 2004, 12:10:03 am »
Yeah, good idea, but I think players should be encouraged to create quests. Also, there should be a government, like in Dark Ages, except we can have PvP so all the politicians can have fun assasinating each other, vandalizing each others property, and other fun things like that! Great plot opportunities there.

Darkmoon

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« Reply #100 on: January 25, 2004, 06:49:37 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Golbez

This is actually very done in many online RolePlaying games. Although I am yet to see it in a MMORPG. A few \"VIP characters\" are created and controlled by the RP Admins to help spread the word about a plot (not so openly, it is done subtly via the wonderful art of RPing  ) and leave hints and tips so that many characters may get involved.

They usually have a short life, as they are not of much use after the plot is over.

Idealistically speaking, players themselves are the ones who are to create the stories and plots through their IC actions. But sometimes things are a little slow, or certain plots cannot be performed without the help of the staff. And these VIPs allow the staff to keep an eye on the plot, and steer it in one way or the other so as to provide the players with some good and much needed fun.

I\'m trying a little experiment with this very concept in MB, hopefully soon.  I still need to contact a few regulars to play parts in the story.  They will have \"lines\" to speak IC (or a close approximation thereof, ad-libbing is ok, as long as the plot is preserved).  As I\'ve never done this before (in an online setting), I\'m really hoping that I can pull it off.  If it works out ok, it should be fun for all involved.  :)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2004, 06:52:57 am by Darkmoon »

Golbez

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« Reply #101 on: January 25, 2004, 08:41:27 am »
Congratulations Dark for making the 100th post in this thread!

*Hands Darkmoon a tastey cookie*

I am very interested in knowing how that experiment goes. I would appreciate if I could be updated with the way it went, if it ran as expected, and what inconveniences arised, if any at all (I foresee one, though, being playing times ;)).

If not, then I guess I will just have to deal with it :P

- Golbez

druke

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« Reply #102 on: January 25, 2004, 09:11:04 am »
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I can?t believe its taken me two hours to read three pages!!  


ditto, although good reading.



Quote
May I point out:


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Our Aims: To become the acknowledged centre of all magic in Yliakum.




Here we find the Arcane Order. They aim to be the strongest guild of mages in PS. Aka: Guild of powerleveling mages. Like it or not, that\'s what they are. They do other things as well, e.g. have a community, but to you, they shouldn\'t be allowed to have such an \'anti-roleplaying\' goal. (no offense to AO members.)
 

first off thanks for dragging us in here for that breif period of time  :P .

second:you by far have takin that wrong, we aren\'t powerlevers as much as people who desire to \"study\" the ways of the shard to further hieghten our skills not at all as you have posted

(just thought i\'d get that off my chest b/c that kind grilled me up)


As for trashing NWN, grr...
NWN is one of the only games i myself also consider an RPG, basicly the game was all about its editor and teh ability to creat your own worlds and games, i myslef play DnD games on it in a private PW i created.

(also getting that off my chest)


as for the \"V.I.P\" ideas, i LOVE it layonara a PW in NWN used that, Lay was a Strict RP server and every other night or so they had events, it worked quite well, the gm\'s would make a character and go and start a story, they even had character dev gm\'s who would basicly moniter the server and if he thought you were doing somethnig that could further your personal character\'s story, they\'d do so.

I really hope something like that is implemnted


my how times have changed.....

Kixie

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« Reply #103 on: January 25, 2004, 09:51:25 am »
*cough cough* spell check... *ahem* spell... CHECK...

druke

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« Reply #104 on: January 25, 2004, 10:32:21 am »
:P  aside from it being 3am, everyone knows i cant spell for the life of me, thats why i never do any public postings, in fact i  think tepsu has given up on spellchecking me all the time.


my how times have changed.....