Author Topic: RolePlaying in its purest form  (Read 15657 times)

Taldor

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« Reply #120 on: January 27, 2004, 10:13:00 am »
I think i forgot something to say about \"good or +2\". I think it\'s (rather) easy to make an option to disable or enable those options about he adjectives. And idon\'t think it makes it much easier, because if you understand the meaning perfectly, then there is not much diffrence between \"good\" or \"+2\".

Golbez: A website is also good.

Avallok

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« Reply #121 on: January 27, 2004, 11:50:14 am »
to golbez

hmm for the past few weeks i think, i have been reeding most of ur points/posts and seriously i wouldnt be suprised if ur a lawyer, anyway true roleplaying reely only existed in those MUDS i think they are called that u know those cheep text based games and similar stuff to that anyway if you have noticed when technology moves on in our case being able to construct better games, graphics etc, the whole pure roleplaying thing kept going down as in no1 reely roleplayed no more, i guess coz of the increase in games, graphics n such most people dont feel the need to roleplay or have never reely herd of the proper way to roleplay, anyway i think 90% of people think roleplaying is lvling up, equipment, armour, swords, abilities, quests and etc, and it reely is without that roleplayin theatre thing u say, thats how i think of a roleplaying game and as time moves on all the game industries will move away from the pure roleplaying thing and itll just be what i mentioned lvl up and so on, its just the way of roleplaying is gettin rejected and you can never fix that seriously you reely cant do anyfin about that, you can keep trying but you will end up dead trying, maybe you can post here from heaven or hell, most likely hell wont have computers its hell down there so why would hell have computers anyway jus remember dont murder the RPG company admins if they don listen to or ur goin down(hell) yeh and i know that joke is and was lame

and also sry for tha bad grammar but thats they way i write
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 11:54:06 am by Avallok »

Winterheaven

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« Reply #122 on: January 27, 2004, 01:23:14 pm »
@Davis: \"Golbez rhox and you should all listen to him or be smited.\" ... Please let him on the earth ;)

@Golbez & Thynett: Can\'t agree at all.

Concerning naming schema: I would only say, that it is a good thing to have a login-name (which could be Winterheaven1971, cause it is not easy to find a name, which is unique worldwide and not already choosen) and the char name (which can be doubled and should be match the char background).

Concerning only few NPC: It is not the question, IF someone can have fun with playing a church priest (if you read my first post, i mentioned that the concept of everybody-is-a-hero is one of the main rp-killers). The question is, if you can find for every village, town, etc. the children, priests, etc. you need. And should the nice built church empty, the tavern closed? Only because nobody want to play the owner? Should there be no childs on the streets, because you do not find the players?

Concerning background description: We agree perfectly.

Concerning communication & name-list: NO! NO! NO!

How many channels do you want to have simultaneous? I spoke about 6 different communication _kinds_ - all messages appear on the same window (but colored to get their source). Is that your understanding of RP? To have during the conversion on screen with some adventurers 3 additional channelwindows open and talk also there about the new equipment for another guild member with a player sitting in another building?

Besides the very bad style of writing Avallok meets a grain of truth. IF you want to have a \"private friends\" channel, a \"roleplay\" channel, a \"guild of arches\" channel and talk to everybody, you can make this in ICQ, on a social server or in the old text base mud. Of course, before the graphic, sound and processor revolution we had only the bbs and the texts. And so we took the empty screen for our act. But now we have all things together and we should not use only a plain meadow for the game.

I made the experience, that it is very difficult for many people to distinguish between IC and OOC. And only a few people are able to play 2 chars in the same world (if we speak about correct behaviour). Roleplaying does not mean to speak about drinking, fighting, crafting... to speak only in emotes... if it is so, you need no impressive game engine... only simple multi-chat-program.

And the namelist is the wrongest concept at all.  It should not be a feature to know, who is on. Such knowledge should only available through powerful items or magical wisdom. This On-List breaks not only the roleplay, it breaks general play. Of course we like to act in groups with our friends side by side, but... think ingame: IF the friendly adventurer moved to another town to meet his son and you moved to this damned wood to save your old fighting teacher, WHY should you have later ingame the opportunity to talk with this friend. Meet him OOC, or make a date, when you will meet at this and that village (of course BEFORE you devide in different directions).

Give the people a stage, a platform to act... make it playable as good as you can, but neither do them force for strict roleplay nor give them all to destroy any deep playing concept... that should be the target of any RP-Game.

br, Winterheaven.
Max and Logan, that is the plan. (joshua)

Monketh

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« Reply #123 on: January 27, 2004, 01:23:16 pm »
You guys are complete opposites.
And I like Golbez, so...

Planeshift is free

Thusly, Planeshift can be modified in ways commercial games cannot be.  ;)

(Including Roleplaying enforcement, Mwahahaha!)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 01:23:38 pm by Monketh »
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

Davis

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« Reply #124 on: January 27, 2004, 06:56:17 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Taldor
I think i forgot something to say about \"good or +2\". I think it\'s (rather) easy to make an option to disable or enable those options about he adjectives. And idon\'t think it makes it much easier, because if you understand the meaning perfectly, then there is not much diffrence between \"good\" or \"+2\".

Yeah, so?

Avallok: Yes, it\'s the way you write, and I can barely read the way you write.

Quote
Originally posted by Winterheaven
Concerning only few NPC: It is not the question, IF someone can have fun with playing a church priest (if you read my first post, i mentioned that the concept of everybody-is-a-hero is one of the main rp-killers). The question is, if you can find for every village, town, etc. the children, priests, etc. you need. And should the nice built church empty, the tavern closed? Only because nobody want to play the owner? Should there be no childs on the streets, because you do not find the players?

But PCs should be able to run plots and quests, not just have them all be NPC-run. Yes, we need someone to be in the church 24/7. A PC can\'t do that. WE need an NPC. But does every quest, every storyline, have to be focused around NPCs?

If you think anybody was saying we should have vacancys simply because there were no PCs to fill them, then either you are missing the point or I am missing an idiot.

Taldor

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« Reply #125 on: January 27, 2004, 07:16:37 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Davis
Quote
Originally posted by Taldor
I think i forgot something to say about \"good or +2\". I think it\'s (rather) easy to make an option to disable or enable those options about he adjectives. And idon\'t think it makes it much easier, because if you understand the meaning perfectly, then there is not much diffrence between \"good\" or \"+2\".

Yeah, so?

Thx, I didn\'t expect so much apreciation for my opinion.
Quote
Originally posted by Davis
Avallok: Yes, it\'s the way you write, and I can barely read the way you write.

Avallok, it doesn\'t matter the way you write. As long it is readable, only the content matters (for me).
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 07:21:09 pm by Taldor »

Monketh

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« Reply #126 on: January 27, 2004, 07:19:44 pm »
...if it is readable.


Anywho, showing non-english players that \"Well-smithed\" is better than \"Fairly-smithed\" could be accomplished by using a chart in the player guide.  End of story.
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

Golbez

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« Reply #127 on: January 28, 2004, 12:28:14 am »
A lawyer? Nah...my brother is the lawyer, I learn to argument and defend my position by discussing with him ;) I am a graphic design student.

Anyway, to respond to Avallok. Yes, it is -very- true that since graphics took over the gaming industry, first via sprites, then making the huge leap to a fully three dimensional world, there is not such a need for the player to imagine what the virtual game world is like. Why should you? You see the trees, the houses, the creatures. All exquisitely drawn and animated (or not ;)). Not to mention the sound effects and even music that emphasises the sentiments provoked by a certain scene or area.

But is the human mind weak enough to succumb to these mere conjunction of blinking pixels in our monitor and sound waves emitted by the speakers? If so, I would be immensely disappointed at the capacity we have to use our imagination.

RolePlaying, again, is not the mere usage of the features given to us by the game. RolePlaying is surrounding yourself in an imaginary world, be teleported to another universe, where you take over a character of your choice and live his or her life.

Graphics and sounds do not murder that possibility. They limit it, in certain ways. For example, I probably will not be able to glare at that character that has just upset mine, or skilfully dance with that woman who owns his heart. But there are many other possibilities as well.

You say \"i think 90% of people think roleplaying is lvling up, equipment, armour, swords, abilities, quests and etc, and it reely is without that roleplayin theatre thing u say\", I say RolePlaying IS a theatre play, and removing the storytelling aspect of it is detracting the core itself of the concept.

Regarding names, one thing is the login name, which can be whatever construction and hodge podge of words and numbers that comes out of your head. But character names is a whole different deal. And they should match the world the character is in.

\"Souleater_2000\", \"I_pwn_j00\" and other similar manners of non-thematic concoctions should be strictly forbidden.

To the point of channels, whoever said that talking in all of the channels would be the very esence of RolePlaying? But there are many possibilities for using a liberal channel system.

A public channel, for all to hear, is a necessity. Why? Because the player community must be in touch. Why? Because! How one would expect to organise plots, conflicts and engulf the world with alluring stories of mystery and intrigue if you do not even know who is the guy playing the character next to you?

A guild channel. Because certain announcements have to be made public to the guild members. Player absences, the fact that a new report is available at the headquarters, reminders for meetings, etcetera.

Obviously, the possibility of paging other players, or \"whispering\", if you prefer. Simply to say \"Hi\", or to say, \"Would it be fine with you if my character approaches and does X action?\". Consent based RolePlaying should also be enforced, since we are at it ;)

And personal channels. Why yes, the ability to create your own channel, invite only the people you want to invite, and discuss what you wish to discuss. Why is this useful? If a plot involves five people, mainly, including you, then you can invite the other four players and discuss details, key events, meetings, and decide if the outcome of the plot is acceptable for everyone.

That is, with a little more detail, how I pictured the system. It detracts from RolePlaying? I do not think so, they are tools that allow the player to organise and make things run as smooth as silk...or at least try to!

I sincerely do not understand the upside of removing an \"Online list\". What is the point? I, as a player, WANT to know if my character\'s ally is online, or his nemesis is present, to be aware of the possibility of an upcoming scene.

I as a player wish to know if X player is currently in the game, to relay the message of a meeting in a designated day, to tell him I will be absent for this or that amount of time, to remind him of an upcoming event, or for crying out loud, I want to see if a friend is online so I can at least say \"Hi\"! (OOCly speaking, of course)

To allow only the owners of certain artifacts, or the casters of determinate spells to be aware of who is online and who is not, is ludicrous. Firstly, it does not make any sense to require an IC tool to be displayed OOC information.

Or do characters disappear in an endless void when the players disconnect? I like to think that characters go to their homes and get some rest, or take a room at an inn, or whatever excuse you wish to use to explain the fact that they are unreachable for a prolonged moment.

Who is online and who is not, is a reality, it is part of our lives outside the game. Why involve skills and items that have to be paid for or trained for, in game, to receive this information?

You said to give the people the stage, and the platform to act. Excellent, you have the world, the skill system, the items, and whatever coding and programming you can think of.

But also show them who they can act with. Not knowing who is out there is extremely discouraging for a player.

True, for RolePlaying, you do not need graphics, sounds, not even internet! Grab a piece of paper, a pencil and an eraser. Then have a bunch of friends get together and use a pair of die to entertain ourselves. It is, indeed, lots of fun.

But if we all followed that example, online RPGs would not exist, would them?

PlaneShift can become the FIRST free online game to offer a true RolePlaying experience, accompanied with three dimensional graphics, enrapturing sounds, and all else you can think of.

I see the enormous potential, and I would like to see the developers taking advantage of it. If they fail, or if the players fail, then it will be a great shame. But I will still have my MUDs and my text games to RolePlay with. And believe me, those fantastic nail-biting moments in which your character is taking a huge leap, and actually making history in the game, last longer in your mind than the time in which you bashed five orcs all by yourself with the sword of butt-kicking +1.

About the empty positions that may or may not be filled by a player, I would not worry about them much. If the staff comments at their site, \"Look! We have this open positions for your any interesting characters! The IC rewards are X, Y and Z!\", then the majority of them will be taken.

You just need to give the characters a reason to assume the burden of a job and its inherent responsibility.

- Golbez

Monketh

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« Reply #128 on: January 28, 2004, 01:10:55 am »
Speaking of Theatre, perhaps you could write a few scenes for us to play Golbez.  ;)
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

SnowWolf

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« Reply #129 on: January 28, 2004, 02:25:54 am »
The reason I like PS is that the devs and players can never \"fail\" at creating the ideal MMORPG - as the old saying goes, you haven\'t failed until you\'ve given up!


From the Ranks of the Arcane Order

SnowWolf

Golbez

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« Reply #130 on: January 29, 2004, 03:09:14 am »
With the intention of adding a humorous touch, although there is indeed a message in this post, I will proffer to the members of this boards a link to the artwork of Chris Coutts: \"Tales for the l337\".

This is the effect of the degradation of the English language online, and the crossover between thematic and non-thematic expressions and information.

Exactly how a wonderful play such as Romeo and Juliet was, in this case, completely destroyed (although for a comical effect), then another theatric event, such as RolePlaying, can be ruined as well.

Warning: It contains some adult speech, blah blah. Nothing worse that what you can find in this forum.

PS: I am sorry William, but all good plays are victims of parodies. Take it as a compliment! ;)

- Golbez

Kixie

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« Reply #131 on: January 29, 2004, 03:44:25 am »
i think that l33t sp33k is just how the english language evolves again. it is necessary... also we are studying romeo and juliet in our english class... im so going to reccomend this....

Monketh

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« Reply #132 on: January 29, 2004, 03:47:22 am »
Quote
Originally posted by whemyfield
i think that l33t sp33k is just how the english language evolves again. it is necessary... also we are studying romeo and juliet in our english class... im so going to reccomend this....

The English language is a thing of beauty.
Your 1337 sp33|<  is the naturally occuring trashing of a beautiful thing.
Evolution?  OMG j00 R tEh sUxOrZ!!!!!!111
« Last Edit: January 29, 2004, 03:47:46 am by Monketh »
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

Kixie

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« Reply #133 on: January 29, 2004, 03:54:49 am »
that just doesnt add up anyways. how did we get to speaking like this? the trashing of the english language of course. its just how language evolves. using slang untill it gets imbeded into our brains. people already say stuff like aw-m-guh for OMG when they are speaking sometimes. its just how the english language works. adopting till your nuts hurt.

Golbez

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« Reply #134 on: January 29, 2004, 04:00:55 am »
Say whatever you want, but l337 speech is a leap backwards in the history of alphabetism ;)

It is not evolution, it is the opposite process, a regression to a more primitive, poorer, and limited form of communication.

Glorifying it, embracing it, adopting it...Big mistakes, from where I see it. Our languages have had thousands of years of modifications and adaptations. But l337 is a parody of a language.

That is why I dislike it. I despise it. Personally, if the decision was in my hands, I would forbid its use in a RolePlaying game or community that is under my moderation.

But currently, that choice is not mine. Oh well!

- Golbez