Author Topic: LAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGG  (Read 1786 times)

joshuab

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LAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGG
« on: February 14, 2004, 07:44:00 am »
Look, i dont mean 2 be like this... but ive had too much frustration with this new version o planeshift.

Most of this is lag, my system locks up, thus causing me 2 have 2 restart and the whole shabang.


I think the 010 version needs 2 be taken down, and the previous version gets put bak up.

I just joined at 4pm this afternoon, and ive restarted my pc at least 20 times.

How hard is that on my disk? Very hard.

The frustration... i have less fun with this game than i do with morrowind. Graphics are great in planeshift, the lag is boring. and thats wut ive spent most of my time on.

So, if u want more ppl, believe me the lag is going to repel ppl away, as is now.

Either update, with the fixed problem, or take down 010, and put up a non laggy version.

thank you 4 ur time.

Grakrim

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2004, 07:54:55 am »
*waves his hand in a Jedi-like manner* There\'s no lag.

Seriously though, its not lag, its frame droppage caused by the 3D engine, Crystalspace (and CEL, from what I\'ve heard).  Most users experience no lag most of the time, especially if their specs are up to (or in some cases, less than) par.

And, I should mention THIS IS NOT A GAME!!! Its a pre-alpha tech demo, and you must treat it thusly.
\" I think you should just follow Grakrim\'s advice ;)\"

\"A universe is enough for more than one opinion.\" - Maxximus

Kithplana

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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2004, 08:06:00 am »
Ah... the 010 version has been up for a good six months, and that\'s only been in my playing time. PS \"lags\" for everyone at some time or another; even on the fastest machines, it lags.

And what Grakrim said.
Kithplana Kyeth

Xordan

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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2004, 02:21:55 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Kithplana
even on the fastest machines, it lags.


No it doesn\'t.... :P

Either get a new pc, wait a few weeks for the next version or bugger off.... just don\'t complain m8. :D

Boldstorm

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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2004, 02:59:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by joshuab
Look, i dont mean 2 be like this... but ive had too much frustration with this new version o planeshift.





ummm new version?

willaert

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Can someone provide a more technical answer?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2004, 05:43:00 pm »
Lag seems like a generic word for what happens when the machine gets locked up when playing an online game-- I thought lag was the time it took info packets to go from my computer to the server and back again.  My experience with PS doesn\'t seem like lag at all, because when my PS game freezes, my CPU slams the roof and won\'t come down.  I can close PS no problem, but this seems like a rendering issue to me, especially because I notice the problem is worse in areas with more polygons.  In my experience, I get \"lag\" whether there are 4 clients running or 30.  Is it really \"lag\"?  I\'ve got a 1.6GHz machine, intel board, lots of memory-- so, I don\'t think this is a machine issue either.  

Does anyone with some technical knowledge want to try to explain this to me?

Nick
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 05:43:21 pm by willaert »

Deddarus

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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2004, 05:49:56 pm »
easy way to tell if its connection lag or graphics rendering slowdown

type in the chatbox

if your text appears as you type it into the entry field (ie before you press enter) but doesnt appear straight away when you press enter its connection lag

if the text you type doesnt  even appear in the text entry field its because the graphics arent updating.. thus your client-side rendering system has frozen/slowed down

Grakrim

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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2004, 06:38:10 pm »
Willaert: PS pulls practically no bandwidth (0.1KB up and down, I think), so its all dependant on your connection\'s latency.  Anything faster than two-way satelite should do fine.

99% of all reported \"lag\" is frame droppage, as I said.  This can either be caused by hardware (too bad, or in some cases, too good) or the unoptimized 3D engine.  I\'ve found that this game runs best on what is considered now \"low-end\" systems, and seems to be less friendly to faster, better graphically performing setups.  I\'m unsure as to if this is some sort of OpenGL or CS incompatbilty.  Its only a theory, so YMMV.
\" I think you should just follow Grakrim\'s advice ;)\"

\"A universe is enough for more than one opinion.\" - Maxximus

willaert

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This may explain one curiosity...
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2004, 07:03:14 pm »
When I first start up PS, there is a window showing the engine loading up:

No CEL environment variable set!
Using alternative 3D driver: crystalspace.graphics3d.opengl
Warning! Failed to load \"csddsimg\"; use -verbose...
Warning! Failed to load \"csjngsimg\";...
Warning! Failed to load \"cssgiimg\";...
Warning! Failed to load \"cswalimg\";...

I am guessing this means the engine is choosing a less efficient method of rendering.  Is this fixable?  It would be worth posting the solution if it is a problem others are having.

Nick

Grakrim

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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2004, 07:08:22 pm »
No, those messages are entirely normal. Nothing wrong with it at all.
\" I think you should just follow Grakrim\'s advice ;)\"

\"A universe is enough for more than one opinion.\" - Maxximus

willaert

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Oh well...
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2004, 07:17:02 pm »
Sorry I didn\'t read your first message carefully!  Thanks for answering even if it can\'t fix my problem.  I should try this game on my older machine...

Nick

Fenrison

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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2004, 08:57:39 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Xordan
Quote
Originally posted by Kithplana
even on the fastest machines, it lags.


No it doesn\'t.... :P

Either get a new pc, wait a few weeks for the next version or bugger off.... just don\'t complain m8. :D


My computer is not in any way slow and i still get regular fps drops in the 1- 0.01 range. Granted it runs fine most of the time with an fps of 10-30 but i still get drops every 20 minutes or so.

my system specs for reference

CPU:AMD Athlon XP 2.0Ghz , Thorton core
RAM:640Mb DDR SDRAM , PC2100
Vid card: nvidia geforce fx 5200 , 128Mb
Internet Connection: Broadband , Comcast Cable

I hardly need an upgrade yet. im not complaining as im content to endure the fps unstability until the release of CB. I just dont believe that your computer hardware has that much effect on wether you get such fps drops or not. however i did notice that before i upgraded my CPU planeshift ran slowly, as if i was running through mud, but that slowness was different than the fps drops i have now. If anyone has solid evidence that harware does effect fps stability let me know what in my system is causing it :)


Dali Llama

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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2004, 10:13:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by willaert
Lag seems like a generic word for what happens when the machine gets locked up when playing an online game-- I thought lag was the time it took info packets to go from my computer to the server and back again.  My experience with PS doesn\'t seem like lag at all, because when my PS game freezes, my CPU slams the roof and won\'t come down.  I can close PS no problem, but this seems like a rendering issue to me, especially because I notice the problem is worse in areas with more polygons.  In my experience, I get \"lag\" whether there are 4 clients running or 30.  Is it really \"lag\"?  I\'ve got a 1.6GHz machine, intel board, lots of memory-- so, I don\'t think this is a machine issue either.  

Does anyone with some technical knowledge want to try to explain this to me?

Nick


While I don\'t claim to be a technical expert at all, I have been programming and messing about with computers for some 20 odd years now.

Several years ago when Jorritt first put Crystal Space together, with only a couple or three teammates at the time, I reviewed game engines written in C/C++ for flipcode.com. CS was one of the first reviews we did. Trust me, the engine has come a l-o-n-g way since those days.

Improved orders of magnitude than it was back then or not, there are still issues with the optimizations for the graphics rendering and effects. I would suggest a good read of the Crystal Space site to get the complete lowdown. At the very least you will begin to see how complex some of these issues people complain about really are from a developmental point of view...  :)

If the machine you\'re trying to run games on, not just Planeshift but any highly graphical 3D game, is not up to a certain spec, you will have problems. This is not lag. That\'s an altogether different kettle of fish that willaert covers pretty good above. Lag, in it\'s most simplistic essence, is packet loss and network bandwidth latency. I would venture to say that it\'s not lag you\'re experiencing as much as lack of optimization in the engine itself and possibly lack of proper machine tweaking on your end.

Things you might wish to investigate are shutting down uneccessary background processes, clearing out the startup menu using msconfig, optimizing your registry using a product like regClean or RegMechanic, possibly doing a scandisk and defrag, insuring that all hardware, including your BIOS, is running under the latest drivers, optimizing the performance of all the hardware on your machine (use SiSandra to benchmark exactly what your hardware is doing, especially graphics and sound cards, et al).

Lastly, make sure you\'ve updated all the virus and adware/spyware definitions of the tools you use for keeping track of such things and run those tools religiously to keep all the nasties chased away. And always shut off things like popup blockers and virus scanners prior to firing the game up. The fewer process you have spawned, the better the engine can run as it has more system resources to draw upon. Todays games are resource hogs from hell for the most part... lol

Running a serious gaming machine is a chore if the system isn\'t kept at optimal operating efficiency on a regular basis. If you don\'t know how to do some of the stuff I mentioned, READ UP on it and learn. There is no better teacher than experience. And experience, my friend, comes from doing it and making mistakes. Learn from those mistakes and get better at the task next go-round. Pretty soon, all this will be second nature...   8)

Again, the primary problem everyone is suffering through right now is this is a pre-alpha tech demo, not a full-fledged  game. Nor will it be a game for quite some time to come. If a playable game is what you\'re after, Planeshift, at the moment, is not the vehicle to use in getting there. Come back several updates from now after the devs have had time to assess the issues that come up during this tech period, add planned features and are able to add more content.  Meanwhile, enjoy exploring, meeting fellow adventurers, forming bonds and amassing your fortune finding crystals so you\'ll be far and gone ahead of noobs coming in later... muahaaaaa

Hope this sheds a little light on some of the dark corners of your issue, joshuab. There are so very many things that could be contributing to the problem--keep in mind that we are talking about Windoze, right... rofl

Cheers!
Miago
« Last Edit: September 19, 2004, 10:19:52 am by Dali Llama »
\"A man has begun to understand the meaning of life when he plants shade trees under which he knows he will never sit.\" -- paraphrasing an Elton Trueblood quote

Androgos

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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2004, 11:07:30 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Fenrison
Quote
Originally posted by Xordan
No it doesn\'t.... :P

Either get a new pc, wait a few weeks for the next version or bugger off.... just don\'t complain m8. :D

CPU:AMD Athlon XP 2.0Ghz , Thorton core
RAM:640Mb DDR SDRAM , PC2100
Vid card: nvidia geforce fx 5200 , 128Mb
Internet Connection: Broadband , Comcast Cable



You don\'t know who you are talking to right? :D

Xordan has probably the best computer among all active PS Fans if I\'m not misstaken..

AMD FX 64bit, 1,5 (I think) GB RAM... Xordan, please fill it up :)

P.S Dali Llama.. Now there we have a newbie who isn\'t a newbie :) D.S

Arzosah

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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2004, 01:51:10 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by joshuab
Look, i dont mean 2 be like this... but ive had too much frustration with this new version o planeshift.

Most of this is lag, my system locks up, thus causing me 2 have 2 restart and the whole shabang.


I think the 010 version needs 2 be taken down, and the previous version gets put bak up.

I just joined at 4pm this afternoon, and ive restarted my pc at least 20 times.

How hard is that on my disk? Very hard.

The frustration... i have less fun with this game than i do with morrowind. Graphics are great in planeshift, the lag is boring. and thats wut ive spent most of my time on.

So, if u want more ppl, believe me the lag is going to repel ppl away, as is now.

Either update, with the fixed problem, or take down 010, and put up a non laggy version.

thank you 4 ur time.

LAG? I\'m guessing you never knew the first pre-alpha version, aka Atomic Blue.

I never managed to move an inch in that version.
(Of course, it could have been that PII computer ;))