What it means to be good, evil, or neutral

[Draklar]

hehe... that\'s lawful-neutral actually

[Fiere]

How\'s it neutral? (just curious really)

[Altharion]

your still not lawful in anyway of stealing.

i would assume Neutral-good.

[Draklar]

hehe... for both of you:
first you have to look at all those other careers that base on working for government:
city guard, judge, lawyer
they\'re all lawful-neutral and that\'s because they follow law and orders given by their government.
The example given by TheRedMonk is same - the thief follows orders given by government.
I\'d like to point out that there wasn\'t mentioned that he believes stealing from evil and giving to poor is right thing to do, thus I don\'t see in what way he\'s good himself. Now if that was mentioned, he would be lawful-neutral by working for government and chaotic-good by believing stealing from evil and giving to poor is right thing to do.
All in all you could say he\'s either neutral-good (he believes in both law and chaos, yes strives to do good) or simply forget about alignments...

[Sangwa]

A character may think in one way and act in another. A thief may be Lawful Good (or any other alignment), but his actions(stealing) are chaotic neutral, his intentions however may be Lawful Good (or of the other alignment).
 
Lawful Good people would rarelly resort to stealing unless they saw it as the only way to avoid suffering.
 
PS: A while ago I was talking of \"Genuine\" Thieves who steal as a profession and not for third parties; not meaning that they are friendless or that they won\'t join any kind of organization/team, but that if they do so, they do it for themselves.
That is the Chaotic-Neutral version of thieves, I am sorry for my lack of clearness .

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Sangwa
Lawful Good people would rarelly resort to stealing unless they saw it as the only way to avoid suffering.

well that is clear... lawful-good character would rather die than do something against their honor...
Paladin is best example of lawful-good character. They won\'t ever do something that they see as \"unjust\" stealing is one of those things.

chaotic-good - will use \"unjust\" ways to fight evil
neutral-good - will use \"unjust\" ways only when it\'s necessary
lawful-good - will never do something that is \"unjust\"
taking one\'s property is unjust whatever you might do with it afterwards...

[Sangwa]

Yes, but it depends if the Paladin has more Good in him then Law .
If he thinks defending Good is above defending the law then he might do that in a very extreme situation, I doubt it would ever happen and if some thinks it would then some one should give an example ^^.
However that also applies to Lawful Evil and Lawful Neutral.
It seems Lawful Good characters take Law more seriously then the other Lawful chars. At least that\'s the first impression one gets.
The best example of a Lawful Neutral character is a Judge and I don\'t think a Judge would resort to thievery since it goes against his true essence: Law.

[Draklar]

Evil:
Anything which impairs the happiness of a being or
   deprives a being of any good; anything which causes
   suffering of any kind to sentient beings; injury;
   mischief; harm; -- opposed to {good}.

stealing one\'s property causes suffering. Being good can\'t lead you to stealing...[/color]

[TheRedMonk]

but what if a thief works for a charity organisation and finances the business to help the poor, by stealing from people that have so much money they dont even notice they have been robbed??? They dont suffer from it and he steals only for a good cause...

[Draklar]

ever heard of guy called Robin Hood?
he was chaotic-good
it still causes suffering, but chaotic side allows that...

[Sangwa]

Stealing is as evil as magic or swords. It depends on how you use it. You can steal stuff like watches or gold or you can steal something a person can\'t live without. It\'s the ones who use it, and not the act itself, that are evil.

[Draklar]

well neither it\'s good... so one\'s good side won\'t push him to stealing

[TheRedMonk]

but like I said the person robbed doesnt miss the things stolen from him. So the thief is really not causing any suffering...just brings happiness to the ones he helps.
Thanx for taking your time anwering

[Ionas]

Well of course the golden ring you steal of that fat rich merchant in way too expensive clothes could have a very sentimental value. As it remembers him to his just passed senile mother who sold everything including their food which made the other childs starve to death only so he could fulfill his dream.

OT: good and evil is of course in the eye of the beholder, stuff like neutral good is somewhat limiting. I think you just have to play your character in the way you think he is.

[Fiere]

your still not lawful in anyway of stealing.

By whose laws? Thats my point, if you are assuming the setting is the standard sort where stealing and murder is illegal than that holds true. But like Redmonk\'s example there may be a case where the laws of the land permit such things (fantasy can be anything right? )


Also perhaps the disconnect here is that I am assuming general fantasy not strictly D&D of any addition. Even if it were strictly D&D its still DM\'s discretion, if she creates her own world instead of using a mod anything goes no?



I agree with Ionas its all in the eye of the beholder ( no not the floating eyeball monster   )